Jack Witt 

Relationships carry the weight of the good that we bring into other people's lives. And I think because of our western mind and our organizational minds that we want to continue to add to people's skill sets, which is important, right? So, we're gonna teach you how to be a good communicator, we're going to teach you how to lead a group so, we're gonna you know, so we are really good at helping people have tools and skills, but we have not paid a lot of attention to who the person is.

Paul Meunier 

Hello, I'm Paul Meunier, the executive director of the Youth Intervention Programs Association, and I'm a youth worker at heart. How lucky am I? I have the privilege to meet youth workers from around the globe and learn their stories and share them with the entire world. I'm glad you're listening because together we'll learn how their life experiences shape their youth work. As you listen, I encourage you to consider how your experiences shape what you have to offer young people. Welcome to this edition of The Passionate Youth Worker. Hi, everybody. For this episode, we're joined by Jack Witt from California in the United States. For over 25 years, he has been in the people development business, helping others move past personal barriers. Jack created and directs a social emotional intervention program for at-risk youth called Elevate Youth Solutions and is the author of Trash Talk: How to Upgrade Your Self-awareness and Unclutter Your Relationships. Jack, thanks for joining us on The Passionate Youth Worker.

Jack Witt 

Thank you for having me, Paul. Joy to be here.

Paul Meunier 

Great, I'm looking forward to our interview very much. Jack, self-awareness is the fundamental reason for this podcast. We know just how much it matters when your purpose is to support other people. But before we dive into that whole topic, let's explore some of your life experiences that led you to be so passionate about helping people. What was your family experience like? Did you have altruistic people around you that served as role models for giving back to others?

Jack Witt 

To some degree. My grandfather was a minister for years. That's how he expressed his care for community. My parents were not. In fact, they were quite private people. And so, I just had developed the desire for our family to be more open and make ourselves accessible to connect with other people and to embrace them and help them.

Paul Meunier 

Well, that's great. And can you think of any particular life event or anything that drove you into the people business? Is there something that you recall, I just want to help people or was there a pivotal moment or did you just kind of organically grow into this whole idea of supporting people in their personal growth?

Jack Witt 

Yeah, I think it's probably the latter of those two, that would be a good way to express it. I always had a strong empathetic instinct. So, noticing people who were being disenfranchised, people who were being left out. I was always in that kind of middle space, even I remember junior high school or early high school days, being the kid in the middle. I wasn't like I'm the outcast, but I wasn't in the "in" group. And so I think that positioning allowed me to see how people were either being included or excluded from community and from places of notice and recognition.

Paul Meunier 

Yeah and we know life is all about relationships. And you were never in the in group, but you weren't on the out group. Did you have the ability to kind of connect with all different groups and different kinds of people, even at an early age? Were you just good socially?

Jack Witt 

I think so, yeah. I think that having, as I said, that empathetic instinct, then I was able to connect and relate to people on both sides of that strata. So, that helped me. I'm more of an introvert by nature, and so that introversion I didn't have huge friend groups. That wasn't something that appealed to me. But I did connect with people one-on-one and had close friends, but was able to kind of navigate that middle ground.

Paul Meunier 

Yeah. So, you had that empathetic side to you. It just naturally came easy to feel for other people. At what point did you decide or think that this is something that I can use as an adult, as a career maybe? Was that a conscious thought to try to use that or again, did you just kind of evolve into this?

Jack Witt 

Well, I think, you know, just naturally led me to find a career path that would allow me to express that, to be able to utilize that. My dad was always pushing me to, you know, go get your MBA and, you know, get in business. He was a businessman. And I had other interests. So, I chose to follow my grandfather's path and entered into ministry at an early age, went off to Bible college and got a degree in pastoral ministry. And that became the housing I think, for that desire to help people.

Paul Meunier 

Yeah, that makes sense. There's so much comparison to ministry and youth work. They're both just deeply concerned and caring and loving towards other people.

Jack Witt 

Yeah.

Paul Meunier 

So, you got into ministry, you did that for quite a while. But for some reason, you moved into a different direction. Can you talk a little bit about your work with the ministry? And why you moved away from that? And I'm sure you're still a very spiritual religious person but yet you're not in the ministry itself. So, can you talk about that transition into the people development business side of things?

Jack Witt 

Yeah, absolutely. I think the point for me, we, the church had grown, and we were reaching a bunch of people who were really disenfranchised in community. So, a lot of homeless people, a lot of extreme poverty individuals, and I had become really attracted to them because they were so hungry and open a lot of the people, the middle-class people that we had serving in the church, were content to kind of live in their identities, you know, of we have it together and our spirituality is just a part of our lives. So, I really directed the church toward reaching those people who were desperate, and it created a crisis for our church. And then for me personally, in that, I saw how the lack of social and emotional development in people affected their ability for the people who were not off the street, to try to engage them with that work, that they ran into their own biases and prejudices and things like that, that kept them from moving forward that direction. And then we had these new people coming into the church who were very broken and needy and they didn't have the socialization skills to be able to pursue their faith. So, I kept seeing this kind of undercurrent, the, you know, the undermining of people's best intentions for relationships, to find community, to find new community, all these things being sabotaged by this lack of social emotional development. So, their lack of socialization, their inability to communicate well, to resolve conflicts, to regulate their own emotions, all those things were becoming more and more on my radar, you know, like, we need to address that. And in the church confines, it's like, they want you to just pay attention to spiritual matters. And I was more and more concerned about the person, about their whole soul, their thought life, their emotional being, their socialization. So that I tried to lead in that in the church for a while and then ended up making the transition out of ministry, to do that in a private sector, consulting. So, I went into doing consulting for financial organizations, healthcare organizations on conflict resolution, and all the things I cared about helping people develop. So, I made that shift out of a ministry context into private sector consulting.

Paul Meunier 

That's interesting, that's quite a change in direction. But yet, I see the similarities of how you're working towards the individual and helping them develop those social emotional skills so that they can have empathy, I think, right?

Jack Witt 

Yes.

Paul Meunier 

So, this idea that you saw that became pretty apparent to you that people wanted to turn a blind eye almost to the most needy. And I don't say that and maybe be cruel or mean, but it was maybe an inconvenience for them to pay attention. And so, you attributed most of that to not their character but their lack of social and emotional development. Is that correct or is it part of a character thing that you saw that was deeper in your ministry work?

Jack Witt 

Yeah, I think it was a bit of both. So certainly, it's a character issue of them not willing to socialize outside of their comfort zone or to embrace other people who are very, very different than them. We had people who were like, okay, they're bringing their kids and their kids cuss and are not well behaved, and I don't want them around my kids that, you know, don't cuss and are well behaved. And it's like that fear I think there was not enough social emotional maturity, I think to be able to address those fears to understand what they were, to move beyond them, to allow their own empathetic instincts or drives to propel them forwards. So, it just created, like I said, a crisis for the church that was frustrating for me because it's like, this is what we ought to be doing, you know. And the people who you really relied on to help care for the most needy in our community were leaving to go sit in churches where that wasn't expected of them. Yeah, it's a challenge for sure.

Paul Meunier 

That's amazing, Jack. So, you saw this problem. And a lot of people would be comfortable enough to just say, Yeah, that's a problem but I'm not going to deal with it. You dove right in, changed it, because you cared so much about these people that were not included and were disconnected and not able to find their faith strictly because they had bad life experiences, maybe mental health issues, chemical dependency issues, whatever that might be. And it was prohibiting them from, I think, what you believed was important for them to find their faith and to develop that relationship with God as they know it. But you didn't just stop there, you then did something about it. And that's what's incredible about you, Jack. You transitioned and you said, Okay, this is a problem. I want people to be included. And we need more of that, and so much of today's world of inclusion. I'm wondering, did you get pushback from people, were they saying like, Jack, what are you doing, you're our minister, and you should stay in the church and now you're developing this business, you're going into the helping people and for-profit industry. And what kind of reaction did you get from people around you? Maybe some of your congregation and your family? What was that like?

Jack Witt 

Yeah, that was, I think, for people who were close to me, they knew that it was necessary for me to make a change, because, you know, I was not thriving and enjoying. It was frustrating, not being able to do the things that were really deeply in my heart to do. I cared deeply about people's spirituality but I wanted to also see them, I used to call it re-parented, you know, so there's so many of these people who just really needed in church language to be discipled. But discipleship of the church was all about teaching people how to read the Bible, and how to pray and so that spiritual disciplines were a part of church discipleship. But I was so interested in their personal development, you know. So, as I said, that kind of self-sabotaging work because of those missing core skills and abilities to be able to function with other human beings in a healthy way. And to understand and manage your own emotions. I just I was so deeply concerned about that, that people who were close to me knew that I needed to make a change. So, I received a lot of support on that side of it. On the other side, yes, I think people who, from the outside were like, well, why are you doing this? Why are you making this change? And but I think that's just part of the deal.

Paul Meunier 

Well, good for you for pursuing your own important thing that you need to do for your own well-being. And for you to fully develop and be self-reflective and to grow into the person that you ought to be. You were willing to take that head-on and deal with that. So, one last question about this and then we need to take a break and I want to talk to you about self-reflection and all those kinds of things. But did you go then get additional training on social emotional learning or did you just self-teach, and learn about all that on your own?

Jack Witt 

A little bit of both. So, as I was making the transition out of a ministry role, as I said, my undergrad work was in church leadership. And so, I did graduate course in strategic leadership. So, I wanted to think more like a leader and to segue into private sector consulting. I got a master's degree in strategic leadership, and that had a lot of focus on organizational structures which I don't have a particular interest in at all. But it also brought me into an understanding of coaching and leadership with different modalities of leadership, how to engage and influence people. So, yeah, I pursued that academically. And then I just did a ton of reading. I was interested in social emotional intelligence. You know, I saw so many people who were brilliant and very capable of doing whatever you ask them to do, but they were failing in relationships. They didn't have great self-awareness. They were stumbling over and creating problems for themselves in their social relationships to the point to where what they were intellectually smart to do or cognitively smart to do, was being really impaired by that. So, I thought, well, if we can help people grow in those skills and become more self-aware, develop their own social emotional intelligence, then you can pair up those cognitive abilities with those skills. And as I've explored more, it's like the world of social emotional intelligence most I think the latest statistic is 70% of hiring agents, HR departments in organizations today are valuing a person's social emotional intelligence over their IQ.

Paul Meunier 

Yeah. Thank you for sharing your journey into where you're at today and exposing some of those important reflection points in your life where you made changes. We need to take a short break. When we come back, I want to talk to you more about self-awareness. So, we'll be right back.

Jade Schleif 

No matter how you support our young people, The Professional Youth Worker, powered by YIPA, has your training and learning needs covered. Visit training.yipa.org. That's training.yipa.org to see for yourself, and then join the 1000s of youth workers around the globe who learn from our easy to access exceptional trainings. From our blogs to our podcast, The Professional Youth Worker is your go-to resource for tools to help you keep going, keep learning, and keep growing. Members enjoy free unlimited access to Live Online and On-Demand trainings, and a preferred discount pricing for our one-of-a-kind certificate course. Annual memberships are ridiculously affordable for individuals and organizations. Visit training.yipa.org. today to learn more. That's training.yipa.org.

Paul Meunier 

Jack, right before the break, we moved into the idea of self-awareness and self-reflection as a discussion point. And I'd just like to ask you point blank, why is self-awareness and self-reflection so important from your perspective?

Jack Witt 

Well, I think we just we go through so much of our life, outwardly-faced, right so that we're we are engaged with how other people are behaving, and not collecting that awareness of how that's affecting us, or how that what we're carrying inside of us is affecting those relationships. You know, that old expression of two ships passing in the night, it's like, you see that in marriage relationships or partnerships, you see that in business relationships, where people are just, they're, they're missing connection. And most of that missing connection is due to the fact that they don't see themselves well, they're not understanding what they're carrying into conversations that is affecting that conversation, or that relationship. And they're not reading the situations and engagements with other people in a way that is helping them to understand what's going on internally with that. So, it's like we're all just kind of wearing these masks and rushing around, and kind of moving in proximity to each other. But that deeper connection, that understanding of self and others, is really rooted in being able to understand and to be aware of who we are.

Paul Meunier 

I agree. And I think that the future of youth work or any human services work is all going to be about self-growth and personal reflection and the ability to bring the best version of yourself into that support of the person that you're working with in a human services industry. And it seems like you are ahead of the curve. I don't know if a lot of people see that as the future. And I'm wondering what you think about that, and why haven't we done that for the last 20 or 30 years? I know you're working on it personally, but I'm talking to industry as a whole? What is the reluctance to get people to be more self-reflective and understand that they are the most important thing that they bring to their work?

Jack Witt 

Well, yeah, I think I think it's in that how well you expressed that last statement, right? They are important to the work and its relationships carry the weight of the good that we bring into other people's lives. And I think because of our western mind and our organizational minds that we want to continue to add to people's skill sets, which is important, right? So, we're gonna teach you how to be a good communicator, we're going to teach you how to lead a group, so, we're gonna you know, so we are really good at helping people have tools and skills,

Paul Meunier 

Yes.

Jack Witt 

But we have not paid a lot of attention to who the person is. And I think through our experience, like my division at Elevate Youth Solutions that I operate functions as a part of a larger foster care organization. And so, for a while I was doing the entrance assessments for foster parents. And so we focus a lot on their history and things that have gone on in their lives. And they would question us like, well, we just want to be foster parents. Why are you digging into our stuff? Then it's like, well, you are key here, right. So, how you relate to these kids and their traumas, if they're triggering your traumas, we're going to have a fat mess on our hands. And you're going to be incapacitated from really being able to deliver the help and resources that that foster youth needs. So, I think all of those things have just kind of congealed into a really deep conviction in me. And in fact, in our program we focus on bringing those core life skills, those social emotional skills into the life of the students, but I focus in our training, it's like, if you don't know this for yourself, if you're not doing this for yourself, if you're not authentically living in, we call them anchor points because we have this mountain climbing metaphor. If you're not living those anchor points, you can't authentically give them away to someone else. So, organizationally, we focused on skills tools, and we really need to pay attention to the person.

Paul Meunier 

Well said, and I dream of the day when the focus of youth-serving organizations are driven to develop their team, both personally and professionally. Because you're right, you can't ignore understanding human development or communication or mental health basics. You need to know that stuff. But the key ingredient to building those trusting relationships is being fully present and being in a good place to build those relationships with the young people. And yet, I get a sense of optimism from hearing that come from you. And yet, I also have a sense of despair because I heard how hard it was for you in your ministry to get people to have that sense of empathy and awareness that the reason that it's easy for them to ignore people who are down on their luck is because they can just walk away from it and not be so self-reflective and go, How can I just not care about that person? What gives you hope, Jack, that we're moving in the right direction? I'd say just, let's say in the United States, is there anything that gives you hope or are you pretty pessimistic that we can get there someday?

Jack Witt 

That's an interesting question. I do have hope. I think our collective consciousness around self-awareness is increasing. I think, to some degree, the talk about emotions and understanding emotions, I have concerns about that because we tend to affirm and allow people just to have their emotion without giving them a pathway to be able to manage that and to be able to integrate those emotions into steps and actions that are going to move them forward. So, but that's a that's a whole other subject. But I do yeah, I think our collective consciousness around our emotional wellness, I hear a lot more talk in youth service organizations, anybody's in human services about self-care. And I'm a proponent that sometimes we just call self-care whatever you do, and I think it needs to be proactive self-care. We need to be working on the things that are helping us to get healthier as people so that we can bring that health into our serving relationships. So yeah, I am hopeful. I think, especially this younger generation, most of our team of coaches that we send on to high school campuses are in their 20s, early 30s. And we just had a gathering in our house a week or so with all of them just have dinner and hang out. So, we played this game. I don't remember the name of the game but it was just a get to know each other kind of game and just the way that they're so at ease with talking about stuff in their life or about who they are and about how they feel. It just, I loved seeing that. I just, you know, we had just had a great time just hanging out with them and enjoying relationships and getting to know each other.

Paul Meunier 

Yeah, well said and I agree with you about the younger generation and they do give me hope as well. I think they've been exposed to the idea that it's okay to share more of yourself and to be a little bit more reflective about what your needs and wants are then perhaps my generation or your generation, probably similar generations where we were kind of just told to tough it up, you know, like, hang in there, pull up yourself by your bootstraps, and don't complain and just keep your nose to the grindstone and work hard. But that meant you were able to close your eyes to so much around you when that was going on. Like you, I consider myself to be a pretty self-reflective person. And I've enjoyed the journey my whole life about how my world just keeps evolving and changing and my understanding of who I was meant to be is continuously going through changes. And it's the most beautiful thing about life, is to become that person you were always supposed to be. And I think you are on that journey. Is that how you would see it too?

Jack Witt 

It is, yeah. I probably wouldn't have looked at it that way. But yeah, it's fun. When you can step into more of who you are and what you're meant to do. I still have very strong spiritual foundations and footings and I referred to this a couple of weeks ago as someone asked me about what I'm doing now. And I said well it's kind of pastoring 2.0. It's like the next evolution of really caring for people, but in a different way, a more complete way, in terms of, I think, my assignment,

Paul Meunier 

Jack, for 25 years, you've been leading the charge in self-reflection, self-awareness, making the most of your relationships, and helping people live better together, which I know is your motto. And I think you have done so much good for the people you have come in contact with both in your ministry work and in your professional life, in your people development business role, as well. And I want to thank you for leading the charge in this whole idea. And for all the work that you've done to help young people and the people around you. You truly are an altruistic person willing to give of yourself in meaningful ways just so the sake of other people can do better. So, thank you for all the work you've done and I know you're going to continue to do. And I just really want to thank you for being a guest on The Passionate Youth Worker and sharing your thoughts with us.

Jack Witt 

Thank you, Paul.

Paul Meunier 

Before we go, Jack, I always give the guests the last word. So, what words of wisdom or inspiration would you like to leave with the listeners?

Jack Witt 

I guess I would encourage you to stay curious. The beginning of the end of effective service for teenagers in particular is where we arrive at a set of conclusions about who they are and why they are where they are and what they need to do. Because I think in those conclusions, you have these hiding places for unhealthy expectations and biases and even judgment. And those things can slowly disengage us, just remove us from them. So, staying curious, staying genuinely interested in that student and searching to know more about them because they are very complex people even at their young ages. And those conclusions that we draw about them can categorize them in a way that allows us to step back away a little bit. And I think, for my health and for the health of youth workers, we also need to pay attention to what do I need to do to stay engaged with them, staying curious, staying authentically interested, and not drawing conclusions about who they are, what they are, will help us to be able to do this for the long haul.

Paul Meunier 

If you would like to share your passion for youth work, we'd love to spotlight you as a guest. If you have feedback about the show, please let us know. Just visit training.yipa.org. That's training.yipa.org and click on the podcast tab. This podcast is made possible in part due to a generous contribution from M Health Fairview. I'm your host, Paul Meunier. Thanks for listening to The Passionate Youth Worker.