Soua Thao 

I graduated college and then I took a break from youth work because I was doing youth work like throughout college and then before that as well, and I took a break, because I was always wondering like, is youth work really what I'm passionate about or is it the only thing that I know? After that break, went back into youth work and that was great and then actually quit my previous job. Was nanny in between. And then I was really contemplating like, you know, what am I going to do with the rest of my life and found this position and was like, you know, this is the perfect timing and calling for me. I was really working on like, my queer and Asian identities and saw this as an opportunity for me to like be my full self in my job.

Paul Meunier 

Hello, I'm Paul Meunier, the executive director of the Youth Intervention Programs Association. And I'm a youth worker at heart. How lucky am I, I have the privilege to meet youth workers from around the globe and learn their stories and share them with the entire world. I'm glad you're listening because together we'll learn how their life experiences shape their youth work. As you listen, I encourage you to consider how your experiences shape what you have to offer young people. Welcome to this edition of The Passionate Youth Worker. Hi, everybody. For this episode, we're joined by Soua Thao from Minnesota here in the United States. They are the program manager for QUEERSPACE collective, and has a Bachelor of Science degree in Youth Studies. I think you'll find Soua to be fun and passionate about supporting our young people in the LGBTQ plus community. Soua, thanks for being a guest on The Passionate Youth Worker.

Soua Thao 

Hey, Paul, thank you so much for having me.

Paul Meunier 

Soua, I've heard that people can get a degree in the United States in Youth Studies. I know some other countries have that degree and it's more common. But you're the first person I actually know here in the United States that has a degree in Youth Studies. Can you tell me why you decided to go for degree in Youth Studies? What pushed you in that direction?

Soua Thao 

Yeah, from my knowledge it's like the only program in the country here in, Minnesota. And it's actually a really cool like small-knit community. But I was really involved in a lot of programming when I was a young person myself and really took just kind of took after like the supervisors and the youth workers that were in my life. Was really into the programming that they provided, the leadership, and started to kind of follow their footsteps. And I actually wasn't planning to go to the University of Minnesota. But when I was applying to colleges I was like, oh, like, that's the program that I want to be in. It's a large school but the program was really small. And so I took a chance and applied and got in and yeah, it was an amazing program. And I think my graduating class is about 26 people so really small.

Paul Meunier 

Wow. At the University of Minnesota, 26 people that is a small program.

Soua Thao 

Mhmmm.

Paul Meunier 

Yeah. Well, what kind of things do you learn in that degree? I mean, is it more management or is it more learning to build relationships or what is the focus of Youth Studies with a bachelor's degree?

Soua Thao 

Yeah, it was kind of a little bit of everything. So, we learned a lot of youth work pedagogy, and then some grant writing. We also had some classes that were hands-on programming focused. There's actually a graduate program in the School of Social Work also called the Youth Development Leadership program. And so YDL, so you can like continue on to get your Masters. A lot of the graduate students were also in the same classes as the undergrad students as well. So, some of the classes overlapped. But yeah, the classes were super discussion and community focused. A lot of the classes involved us being out in the community and, you know, getting volunteer hours or internships with other organizations. So, really hands-on experience with working with young people, and developing those skills in programs, in programs that we would then, you know, go and work at.

Paul Meunier 

That is so cool that there's a program like that because I think eventually our industry of the youth work field needs to really recruit smart and bright young people into this field and give them a route to learn this because it is a difficult thing. And so, you get so much exposure, it sounds like. And it sounds like you also went through a lot of youth programming yourself. I mean, you were engaged in these different programs. Can you talk about that and how that may have influenced you into what you're doing now?

Soua Thao 

Yeah, I wasn't really like involved in a lot of programming until my junior year of high school. But the programs that I really wanted to sign up for and did sign up for were a lot of leadership and youth voice focused. And so, anything that had the word leadership in it, I signed up for it.

Paul Meunier 

Cool!

Soua Thao 

I wanted to like, build up my leadership and just like really made sure that my youth voice was heard in decision-making and whatnot. So, a lot of service, service learning, and leadership opportunities. So, programs such as the Students Today, Leaders Forever, which is no longer an organization, but they provided service trips across the country to middle, high school, and college students. And so, I started going on those in high school and in high school I was leading middle school trips too. And then in college, attended college trips. And then also got a chance to lead a college trip which is nine days long with a bus full of like 40 college students. And so, I was really able to like plan and facilitate that trip for those folks. So, STLF is one of them. And I was really involved in also service learning. So, the National Youth Leadership Council is an organization local to Minnesota and I served on their youth advisory council and was a youth board member on the board of directors for a couple of years. So, really got a lot of experience in facilitating, in planning conference workshops around education equity, and service-learning voice and just got a lot of skills built there. And was really able to gain a lot of mentors and guidance when it came to youth work. And just like life in general there so...

Paul Meunier 

Wow, you had a focus on leadership at such an early age. Even before that, do you think you had those leadership attributes in you all the time? Or is that something that emerged like when you talked about like in around 11th grade and things or even when you were younger, do you think you have those leadership qualities about you?

Soua Thao 

I think that everyone has leadership qualities in them. It takes maybe some discovering or some pulling out. And also, when we think of leadership sometimes we think leaders are the folks in the front of the room kind of leading everyone. But you know, leaders are also the folks who are quieter, who understand the bigger picture, who have more of a logical mindset where they can like plan things out. And that's also qualities of a leader. So, I think that everyone has qualities of leadership in them. I was definitely more of the kid with the loud leadership when I was younger. And then, as I like,

Paul Meunier 

I was gonna ask you, which one of those two are you?

Soua Thao 

Yeah, definitely like the loud one. And so, the leadership compass, the buffalo is what they would call it, the one who was always the first one to raise their hand, always, like kind of jumping to conclusions and jumping to like, solve an issue or a problem or helping the community. As I grew older and learned more about leadership styles and whatnot, and was a part of these programs, I really tried to take a step back and work on my other leadership qualities. And so the logical mindset, the inclusion of like everyone in the room, and then I'm forgetting the other oh, the bigger picture, making sure that I see the bigger picture when I'm working on specific details on things.

Paul Meunier 

And now here you are supporting young people, giving them leadership abilities of their own. Good for you. So, where do you think that focus on leadership came from? Are your parents, did they have positions of leadership or were they leaders in their community? Were you exposed to that? Did you see role models doing that or is it something that just emerged in you?

Soua Thao 

I wouldn't necessarily say that my parents had like, roles in the community or in their jobs per se, in leadership roles. But my mom really knows how to bring a room together. And a lot of people like listen to her and she's just like, really great with people and I feel like I get my qualities of doing that from my mom. My dad was more on the quieter side and wasn't like he didn't say much a lot of the times but was still able to like interview and he actually passed two years ago but when he did pass like a lot of his cousins and brothers and relatives and whatnot, so like a lot of my uncle's just shared stories about how greatly like he brought communities together. And so that was really, really neat to hear too.

Paul Meunier 

Sounds like you had good parents and they were immigrants right? I think I remember that correctly.

Soua Thao 

Yeah. So, both my parents were from Laos and then went over to Thailand due to the Vietnam and secret war, and from there came to the US. They weren't together yet. Both of my parents came to the US when they were teenagers. And then they met in California, got married, had my brother and then moved to Minnesota to have the rest of my five siblings and I.

Paul Meunier 

Did they speak English when you were born? I mean, were they pretty acclimated with the new world or was that difficult for you? You're here you are going to mainstream schools and all that kind of stuff. What was that like for you?

Soua Thao 

Yeah, definitely, something that I've been kind of dealing with my not dealing with, but like, you know, really reflecting on in the past couple years on having refugee immigrant parents. My mom was fortunate enough to attend high school in the US, but, you know, only uses English when she needs to kind of get by and she uses English at work and whatnot. But I've always kind of said, like, my mom would be in a leadership role at her job but it's the English language barrier that is kind of stopping her from that so reading documents and whatnot. My dad also graduated from high school in California, and then was fortunate enough to attend some college but unfortunately, like didn't have the finances to continue. So, he also used English sparingly, only to get by but Hmong was their first language for sure. So, coming and like growing up and being born and growing up in the US, like going to American public school, right, really had to, like translate a lot of documents or kind of just navigate two worlds growing up with my parents, you know, not speaking English as a first language. But they understand and my mom like, uses English here and there now, but Hmong is still her first language.

Paul Meunier 

Yeah. Well, I for one, am glad that they came here to find a better life. And here you are trying to make the world a better place. So, it all worked out for the best. And I know your dad is not with us anymore and I'm sorry about that. But they must be pretty proud of you and look back and think of where they came from. And then now here is their daughter with a college degree, working in the community, having an active loud voice in the well-being of what goes on there. And so, I mean, is that accurate, would you say like they're before your dad passed do you sense that they're pretty proud of you?

Soua Thao 

I know that they're proud. I know that it's also been hard to like, kind of say that through words. And so, I never really received any like verbal congratulations or like appreciation for or like proudness for the work that I've done, right. But I know that they love me. And I know that they are proud of me. Sometimes I hear like, I tell my mom something. And then I don't like receive any like sense that she's brought back to me. But then I hear her talking about me to like other people, I'm like, okay, that's how I know that she's proud of me. And just like the support too helps me know that they are proud of me. And I've learned to like, understand that I don't need a verbal confirmation from them to know that they love me and like support me.

Paul Meunier 

Yeah, their actions speak for themselves. Forgive me for asking, was it just a cultural thing? Because I mean, European Americans or people who have lived in our country for a long time have gotten used to saying things like that or was it just other reasons maybe or what do you think that is?

Soua Thao 

I think it's definitely cultural. I'm not entirely sure. But that's something that I'm like, learning to do right now. Because I've never really had that in my life, right. So, just like learning to congratulate my siblings and my friends on like, things that they're doing and making sure that they hear from me that I'm proud of them or that I love them. Yeah, so it's something that I'm definitely like, working on because, you know, we didn't have that growing up.

Paul Meunier 

Yeah. Well, I'm glad that you're working on it. And I bet you with young people, you convey that in a pretty clear manner. And do you ever say like to young people, you're proud of them or does it come out there in your work? It comes out easier in your work life maybe?

Soua Thao 

Yeah, it's a little bit easier. But I think that's like, also then now bleeding into like my siblings, and we're all like old enough now. Like, my youngest sibling is 12. But because they like kind of grew up with the rest of us. My second youngest sibling is 22. So, there was a huge age gap there. And we're all just like learning and like, growing together as we like, learn to support each other as we're older and whatnot. So, teaching our youngest sibling to like also learn these skills of verbally appreciating other folks is pretty neat to like, be able to do that together as we're like, now older and like more conscious of how we're moving through the world. So, I don't wish that my parents like, you know, was able to do that when I was younger, and I'm thankful now that I'm more conscious about you know, like, I didn't have this growing up but here's what we can do now, as an adult.

Paul Meunier 

Great perspective, a very sound way to look at it, I believe. I can't believe it. I just looked at the clock - we're halfway through already. So, we're gonna take a short break, and then we'll be right back.

Jade Schleif 

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Paul Meunier 

Soua, right before the break, we were talking about your parents and your childhood and things like that. And I know now you identify as queer and you're connected with the LGBTQ plus community. Just one more question before we move on and start talking more about young people in particular. But what was that experience like for you? Sadly, it's not easy for people to come out in today's world. I hope that changes someday. But what was it like for you and how did everybody around you accept that?

Soua Thao 

Yeah, it's been I mean it's a constant journey. I first kind of came out to myself when I was a sophomore in high school and then kind of was like in the closet throughout my junior year of high school. And it wasn't until after my first year of college that I came out to my family. So, I moved off to college, lived in the dorms and was able to just kind of like be myself. It's kind of funny, like I hear my college friends now, like telling me like, oh, my gosh, you were the queer friend. And I don't remember, like coming out my first year of college just like, had the space to be myself. And so, it's kind of funny that they say that. I think I was just comfortable enough to emulate my queer identity. After my first year of college, I was, you know, I was seeing somebody at the time, and I decided that, you know, it was time to let my family know. And so, I came out to my siblings first. And I was really trying to be conscious of like, you know, if this goes poorly what happens. And so if I got kicked out, I was working at a camp that summer. And so, I made sure to do it before that, just in case I did get kicked out that I could then move off to camp and work there and get housing for three months. But yeah, I came out to my siblings first and they were all pretty supportive. And then I came out to my parents, and that did not go well. They didn't kick me out or anything but just a lot of like, disapproval for my queer identity. And that was really hard honestly. It was hard, because then I kind of felt like, I had already been living my full self, like for a year at college and then to come out and then be disapproved by my parents was really hard. And then I moved off to camp and worked there for three months. And I kind of actually went back into the closet because I was afraid that parents of campers would not want their camper to be in a cabin with a queer camp counselor. And so just kind of like, went back into the closet with that fear. I also wasn't really out to a lot of other camp counselors, just with a fear of like, rejection there too. And then with the constant like flow of campers coming each week, like it just made it hard to like have a constant flow of, you know, my summer and so I actually was kind of fell into like, a depression during that summer but didn't know at the time and it was just really tough. And then I came back from working at camp and moved into an apartment with some friends and just like didn't really talk about it with my parents. And so, that was really hard. But I kind of lived my life at college and then at home I'll kind of you know, I was under their roof so just had to kind of do whatever they asked, which was tough. But was thankful that I was able to pay myself to like live on my own and stuff like throughout college too.

Paul Meunier 

Yeah, thank you for sharing your story. I as a straight person, I can't imagine what it would be like to have people work against you just for who you choose to identify as or who you choose to love. I can't imagine how difficult that must be and we know there's a lot of young people struggling with that, like you did, and now you're there to support them. What does it mean to you to be able to be that support person to other young, LGBTQ plus community members? To be there for them, what does that mean to you?

Soua Thao 

It's an amazing feeling to be able to be a part of this program. I was actually the first hire after the executive director and founder of QUEERSPACE. And so, we got to really build this program up and see it come to fruition, you know, from the beginning. And so, it feels really great to be able to, like, provide this programming and support young LGBTQ plus folks who know who they are but maybe sometimes don't really have the words or the space to explore that. So, it's always amazing to see young people in our program, come at the beginning and then use a different set of pronouns, and a name. And then throughout the program, we get the chance to explore that. And we tell them, like, you can come to one month and hang out and use a set of pronouns and this name, and then the next time we see you, if you're using different pronouns and names, great, just let us know so we know how to address you. And so, yeah, just really giving them that space is an amazing feeling. I find it funny because like, my mom still is not supportive of my queer identity. And I've been with QUEERSPACE for a year and a half and actually, I don't know if she knows that I work for a queer org. And so yeah, so it's just, it's kind of funny. And it's bittersweet to like, see that these young people have supportive families. But at the same time, it's funny to know that my mom is not as supportive with my queer identity, right? So, it's a push and pull for sure. And something that I'm working on still, and know that I can't like change her mind overnight, or like, have her support my queer identity overnight. I know that she loves me and I love her. But there's just some differences that she might not understand, which is, you know, totally understandable as well.

Paul Meunier 

Yeah. It's so rewarding to hear you say deep down, you know that she loves you. And that's the main thing that I think is the important thing that you have in your world. Working with young people sometimes teaches us a lot about ourselves. And so what's something surprising you've learned about yourself in your work with QUEERSPACE collective?

Soua Thao 

Oof, good question. Ever since I graduated, I graduated college and then I took a break from youth work because I was doing youth work like throughout college and then a little bit before that, as well. And I took a break because I was always kind of wondering like, is youth work really what I'm passionate about or is it the only thing that I know? And so I took a break and always have found myself to come back to youth work. And after that break, went back into youth work and that was great, and then actually quit my previous job due to some family stuff and work stuff, too. But was nanny in between and then I was really contemplating, like, do I go back into nonprofit youth work? You know, what am I going to do with the rest of my life kind of thing. And found this position and was like, you know, this is the perfect timing and calling for me. I was really working on like, my queer and Asian identities and saw this as an opportunity for me to like, be my full self in my job. So yeah, I took it. And I think just like learning from youth work, this is like something I'm great at, and I'm passionate about. And something that I'm learning to do in this job is to care less but also because I care a lot about the young people but learning to care less and put less stake into my job as my life, right? I'm learning to also then focus on my other hobbies, make sure that I don't burn out. And I think before I had to take breaks and wonder because I was burning out as a youth worker in the nonprofit world, right. So, just like learning work life balance and boundaries. And yeah, I think that's the biggest thing, biggest lessons I've had for myself in the last year and a half.

Paul Meunier 

Well, it's great that you said you're good at youth work, I bet you're very, very good at it. And I bet you the young people are so thrilled to have somebody like you in their life to feel safe around. And I'm grateful that you're doing it. And you did talk about burnout and caring too much. And that is a common thing about people in this field. And if you have to, if you want to be in it for the long run and have longevity, you do have to learn to separate yourself sometimes so and you're learning to do that sounds like you haven't got it mastered yet, but you're working on it.

Soua Thao 

It's a constant journey.

Paul Meunier 

It is. Trust me I know. What kinds of things do you do to be able to separate a little bit and focus on some of your own interests and not think about young people 24/7?

Soua Thao 

Yeah, I love the outdoors. I love hiking, camping. I just bought a kayak and so I've been kayaking a few times a week this summer.

Paul Meunier 

Nice!

Soua Thao 

And yeah, so just spending a lot of time outside, I think grounds me. But also, kind of helps me take a break from work and then life as well. So, just making sure that I have the time or take the time off to like be able to do those things. Last summer, I was fortunate enough to go on a two-week backpacking trip in California. So, I was thankful that QUEERSPACE allowed me to take that time off, but because two weeks is a long time. But that was amazing to just like, know that I could still pursue like my hobbies and work at the same time.

Paul Meunier 

Yeah, I've got a hard question for you, you ready?

Soua Thao 

Yeah.

Paul Meunier 

All right. Because it's hard for people in our field to answer this kind of question. But what do you like most about yourself?

Soua Thao 

What do I like most about myself? I feel like this has been kind of like a long time coming. But in the last like, couple of years, I've just been learning to like, be with my authentic self. And, like, learn more about like, who I am and not in the eyes of others but like, in the eyes of myself. So, I think my answer would have been way different if you asked me, like, you know, five, six years ago. But today, I just really love that I'm trying to be more intentional on how I move through the world. And like, I'm really like conscious about how I do that. And then how I show up, how I like, support myself while supporting others. And just, yeah, I mean, it's taken a lot of like, time and learning and lessons and therapy to be where I am today. I'm like, loving myself for who I am, and a lot of just self-discovery. So, I think that's like, my favorite part about me. But I love too that I can like, kind of talk to anybody and make them feel comfortable. I think that is a skill that's really great for my role at QUEERSPACE. And while I'm talking to mentees, mentors, and caregivers in our program, I'm making sure that they all feel comfortable. And I think it's a skill to be able to talk to a lot of or talk to folks from like different generations and still have a great connection with them. Oh, about myself?

Paul Meunier 

Yeah. See, I told you, it's gonna be hard. Because this is your moment to shine. What do you like about Soua? Well, you answered that very thoughtfully and very well. And I am so grateful that you are being intentional and becoming your authentic self. Because I can tell you from somebody who doesn't know you really well, but has gotten to meet you a few times now, you come across as a very authentic individual, a very unique person that seems grounded in who they are and what they want to accomplish in their lifetime. And I think that is going to only grow with you. I think over time, your willingness to be self-reflective and self-aware are a strength that I just see you having. And I'm grateful that you are taking those skills and trying to role model those and help other young people develop that themselves. Because the people - I don't have to tell you, you know this better than me - in the LGBTQ plus community have a lot of headwinds against them for everything that they're trying to become in this world and become their authentic self. And it's not easy, it's got to be unbelievably hard. So, thank you for all the work that you do. And you're self-exploration. And also thank you for sharing your story. You really were vulnerable and I really appreciate that. And I think your story is going to inspire other people to be more reflective about who they are as well. So, thank you for all that. And thank you for being a guest on the podcast.

Soua Thao 

Thanks for asking and allowing me the opportunity to also share my story. Appreciate it.

Paul Meunier 

It's been fun. Soua, before we go I always give the guest the last word. So, what words of wisdom or inspiration would you like to leave with the listeners?

Soua Thao 

Yeah, my words of wisdom is to be your authentic self. You know, people know when you're not your authentic self and also like who you are is constantly growing and changing. And so be open to that. Explore those things. Explore those questions in your head about yourself. And just like be on the constant journey of like, learning and growing. And not everybody is going to stay the same throughout their whole life. So, just be willing to explore that. I have a hard time with change honestly. But sometimes change is good. A lot of the times change is good. And so, yeah, just embrace that.

Paul Meunier 

If you would like to share your passion for youth work, we'd love to spotlight you as a guest. If you have feedback about the show, please let us know. Just visit training.yipa.org, that's training.yipa.org and click on the podcast tab. This podcast is made possible in part due to a generous contribution from M Health Fairview. I'm your host, Paul Meunier. Thanks for listening to The Passionate Youth Worker!