Sarah Mangan 

It gave me something to push against, right? So it was like, ooh, if I could just get away from them, then I'll be okay. When the real thing that I was pushing against was the disease of addiction. Once I started drinking and using that became the axis around which my life revolved. Most important, only thing. So everything that got in my way, was a barrier. And so I saw my parents assistance, their love, their support as a barrier to what I really wanted. That also turned out to be a false thinking process.

Paul Meunier 

Hello, I'm Paul Meunier, the executive director of the Youth Intervention Programs Association, and I'm a youth worker at heart. How lucky am I? I have the privilege to meet youth workers from around the globe and learn their stories and share them with the entire world. I'm glad you're listening because together we'll learn how their life experiences shaped their youth work. As you listen, I encourage you to consider how your experiences shape what you have to offer young people. Welcome to this edition of The Passionate Youth Worker.

Hi, everybody. For this episode, we're joined by Sarah Mangan. She is the positive community norms grant coordinator with Reach programs in Minnesota in the United States. She holds two master's degrees is a certified health coach, a behavior change specialist, a certified personal trainer, and she's even a yoga instructor. All that's very impressive. But what I find most endearing is that her kindness and gratitude are contagious. Sarah, it's super exciting to have you as a guest on the podcast. Thank you for joining us.

Sarah Mangan 

Thank you so much for having me, Paul, I'm really excited to be here.

Paul Meunier 

You're relatively new to working with young people. Most of your human experiences have been working with adults. How did you come to take the leap into youth work?

Sarah Mangan 

I'm so grateful to have this experience. Like you said, I've had a history in the adult human services working world, I got an opportunity to be the positive community norms rent coordinator for Reach programs, which is a youth adult partnership. I feel like universe aligned and I just got this really cool opportunity.

Paul Meunier 

How different is it working with young people now that you're doing it after working with adults most of your life,

Sarah Mangan 

Not as different as I expected. In a lot of ways I feel like people are people and being able to see their humanity at every phase of their personal development. That's a place that I can find the common ground.

Paul Meunier 

I know that you did a lot of work in chemical dependency with adults and mental health and things of that nature. But why did you choose getting into chemical dependency and helping people in the first place when with all these degrees and all these things that you do, You could be pursuing different careers in a multitude of avenues, but yet you chose helping people, why is that?

Sarah Mangan 

The real truth is all of the degrees, all of this stuff happened after I got sober. So it wasn't until I had recovery that any of that was possible for me. And it felt really important to give back. Something that saved my life, to continue to offer that to people who are still suffering.

Paul Meunier 

Can you talk a little bit about your addiction? How did that come to be? And how did you get into that life where you were using chemicals and getting drunk a lot? How did that come to be?

Sarah Mangan 

Yeah. Well, it happens slowly fits in stages. I shared with you the last time we talked the first time I drank alcohol I got in trouble and serious consequences. Really, when I think back my drinking history was relatively brief. But it was really an attempt to connect to find comfort in myself and in the world. It didn't work out. As we also discussed, that wasn't the way that I would ultimately find connection with people. But it was the way I got there.

Paul Meunier 

Yeah, to feel connected. Did you feel disconnected as a young person?

Sarah Mangan 

Yeah, I felt pretty isolated. In my own mind, I would say. I think there were a lot of people around me. My family is amazing. My parents have been married for 45 years. You know, there were folks around. It was mostly just feeling alone. Whether that was true or not.

Paul Meunier 

I wonder why that was. You were a smart person. You were in accelerated classes. You were involved in athletics. You're a gymnast. Why do you think you still felt disconnected?

Sarah Mangan 

I think with, you know, with the mind of an adult, I can look back on that now and say, well, these were the factors of what was occurring. I can also see a person who had the beginnings of an undiagnosed mental illness, an eating disorder, a desire to be accepted, and a fear that that would never happen if people like really knew who I was. So there was a lot of attempts at masking to look like everything was okay. But that felt so incongruent with what was going on inside, if that makes sense.

Paul Meunier 

Yeah. What is it about yourself that you felt uncomfortable? Can you label that? Maybe not, you couldn't at the time, but can you now label what made you feel like you weren't belonging?

Sarah Mangan 

I grew up, born in the early 80s, kind of came of age in the 90s. There wasn't a lot of diversity in our media, and I grew up in a very small town, all the people were white, everyone had this hetero normative lens. And so I didn't see myself reflected in that community or really anywhere. But I couldn't name that. When you are small, or even when we're grown, you know, you can go into a situation and maybe feel like, yeah, I belong here. Like, these are my people. And I really never felt that like, oh, yeah, here I am. I belong here.

Paul Meunier 

Yeah. At what point in your life did you get to a point where you say, now I feel like I, I'm being true to myself, and people are accepting of me, who I am?

Sarah Mangan 

Well, I think I had the illusion of that with drinking and drugs, right? I thought, I'm just kind of like, let it all hang out. And if you hang around, you must accept me. And that's not accurate either. But I think that that seems like when you drink, we lose our ability to have inhibitions that keep us safe. And we make choices almost in an other-than- conscious way sometimes, right? So in that drinking and stuff, it was okay for me to explore my sexuality, to ask hard questions, to question the constructs that we live with. I think when you're a young person, and you're using drugs and alcohol that feels really deep, and really real. And it was a gateway to being able to ask hard questions, get really deep and really real without having to numb my feelings through alcohol and drugs. Does that make sense?

Paul Meunier 

Yeah, I think it does. And so what I'm getting is that you had, you had stability around you, but something just wasn't right. And you it seemed like you were having a hard time putting your finger on what that was when you were young, I

Sarah Mangan 

Don't necessarily think it's any one thing. You know, in our society, we try to pinpoint like a problem. And all of us live within systems. And we face a diverse set of challenges in those systems, whether it's poverty, or racism, or sexism, or whatever it is. We're all in those systems. I think that that plays a part that we sometimes can't even calculate.

Paul Meunier 

When you first started drinking or experimenting with drugs. Did you kind of get an instinct right away that you really like this stuff? Or was it something you grew into? Because I know, I've heard a lot of stories about people with chemical dependency problems. Right away, it was a light bulb went off. This is something I want to do more of. What was that like for you

Sarah Mangan 

Instantly, instantly. It was a feeling of freedom and release, followed by disaster, which I could not wait to repeat.

Paul Meunier 

 What is the disaster? Sarah?

Sarah Mangan 

The disaster is the inevitable consequences that always accompanied my drinking. It's getting in trouble with my parents getting arrested, ruining relationships with people, there was always a price. It was never just the release and the freedom, it always had a cost.

Paul Meunier 

Interesting. I bet that's true for a lot of people with chemical dependency problems is that there's the benefits, but there's also the cons that go with it every time. Yeah, I believe that's true. What were your parents like and how were they when you started dabbling in alcoholism or not dabbling in alcoholism, but when you started drinking?

Sarah Mangan 

That's really what happened. So my parents are amazing. They're two of the smartest people I know, to this day. They always wanted what was best. So when I started drinking, they were super concerned and wanted to cut that off immediately. The consequences were swift and severe and never physical punishment, but a retraction of any freedom I had. They made it clear that this was unacceptable. I was also informed probably around that time like 15, 16 years old that I have a lot of chemical dependency issues in my extended family. But lots of people suffer from this and it's in my blood, it's in my genes, and I better keep an eye on it. I'm predisposed. So I also knew that really early on too. So I guess I didn't feel super surprised. It sort of felt like predestined just like, yep, this is what we do.

Paul Meunier 

So your parents were very involved, took a very interventionist kind of approach to trying to help you get it didn't seem to work, right? All those restrictions of freedom didn't seem to help. Did that sometimes make it worse?

Sarah Mangan 

Um, it gave me something to push against, right? So it was like, ooh, if I could just get away from them, then I'll be okay. When the real thing that I was pushing against was the disease of addiction. Once I started drinking, and using that became the axis around which my life revolved. Most important, only thing. So everything that got in my way, was a barrier. And so I saw my parents assistance, their love, their support as a barrier to what I really wanted. That also turned out to be a false thinking process.

Paul Meunier 

Well, I give your parents a lot of credit for stepping in. Some parents don't do that. Was there a lot of friction between you and them, when you were younger? Did it lead to a lot of discomfort in the environment or your home?

Sarah Mangan 

Oh, yes. I think that it's got to be really hard. I don't have kids, but I cannot even imagine loving someone so much. And watching them hurt themselves. And not being able to help. That must be such an awful feeling. When I look back at that time, that's how I think about it now, everyone felt powerless. My solution was I'll just go, I'll just get out of here. And then I'm going to make it okay for everyone. But I kept coming home. And like, that didn't work either.

Paul Meunier 

Did you run away?

Sarah Mangan 

I did well, you know, after high school. So I started really drinking in earnest, doing drugs when I was about 17. Senior year of high school wasn't awesome. Don't remember it very well. But after that, it was just like, I'll go, I'm out. And then I drove across the country with someone home, did it again, came home. But the thing I also think about is how blessed to have a place to come back to that my parents didn't just say, you know what, go, figure it out. And no, you can't come back. I probably wouldn't be speaking with you if that had been the case.

Paul Meunier 

You know, you talk about what a blessing. And I want to talk to you more about that later on in the podcast. But you are one of the most grateful people I've ever run across. And it's so wonderful to hear those kinds of things come from you. When you were drinking, we often hear people hit rock bottom. Did you have an experience like that something that caused things to change for you in a big way?

Sarah Mangan 

Yes, I think the rock bottom it wasn't an isolated event. It was about a three week period of time. But it was getting a DUI, which happened in February of 2002. I hadn't had access to a vehicle for years because my parents were smart enough not to give me access to a vehicle, thank god. And so I had my roommate's car, I got a DUI and I went to jail. And that was pretty unexpected, to say the least. When I got pulled over, the cop asked me have you been drinking? And I said, yeah, but I'm 21. And that's really it was like, dude, I can drink legally, like, what's your problem? That was the beginning of the end of my drinking. My dad coming to pick me up from jail. He wasn't even mad. He was just so deeply disappointed. That was worse. I really wanted him to just like yell at me or do something and he was disappointed, disgusted. And that got my attention somewhere. It was about three weeks later that I called him up and I said I need help.

Paul Meunier 

And what did he do?

Sarah Mangan 

He helped me. Oh, he was able to help get me into detox and into treatment. He funded it, you know? And that saved my life. So....yeah,

Paul Meunier 

 He sounds like a wonderful person.

Sarah Mangan 

He is my hero.

Paul Meunier 

That's great. Well, kudos to your mom and dad for helping you through those really tough times.

Sarah Mangan 

I know they're so great.

Paul Meunier 

In addition to this, you had mentioned, you're exploring your sexuality. So in addition to everything else that was going on, you were trying to identify who you really were and what your sexuality really was. When did that all surface? And when did that get to a point where you feel comfortable with who you are now?

Sarah Mangan 

So I think it got kind of real, like, oh, that's an option. Maybe when I was 16 years old, I didn't realize until that point that girls could kiss girls. And then I got very excited to find that out. When I went to college, that was very cliche. I met someone and was just like, oh, I can be myself here. So it was probably after my first semester of college, when I came home. I let my parents know, like, hey, I'm probably gay. And like, I've known this, I just need to tell you. It was it was an interesting conversation.

Paul Meunier 

Yeah. And your parents are pretty religious, right? So some of these things are going against their religious beliefs, I've got to believe.

Sarah Mangan 

Right, so we were raised Catholic, my parents are Catholic. Part of being Catholic is an intense sense of responsibility to pass your faith along to your children. So my parents took that responsibility seriously. You know, and my perspective on that has changed over time. But I really do respect their faith. It comes with a lot of rules that I don't agree with. And it is not my personal spirituality, but I see how it serves.

Paul Meunier 

Sarah, thank you for sharing all that you've really exposed yourself in a very personal sort of way. And I think it's really helpful for the listeners to be able to hear your story, because it reminds us of what young people are going through when we're working with them. There's a lot of internal things happening and systems are bumping up against them, their caregivers are bumping up against them. And it's a very turbulent time in people's lives. We do have to take a short break. But when we come back, I'd like to ask you a little bit more about your work and things you've experienced lately, so we'll be right back.

Jade Schleif 

No matter how you support our young people, The Professional Youth Worker powered by YIPA has your training and learning needs covered, visit training.yipa.org. That's training.yipa.org to see for yourself, and then join the 1000s of youth workers around the globe who've learned from our easy to access exceptional trainings. From our blogs to our podcast, The Professional Youth Worker is your go-to resource for tools to help you keep going, keep learning, and keep growing. Members enjoy free unlimited access to live online on-demand trainings, and a preferred discount pricing for one of a kind certificate course. Annual memberships are ridiculously affordable for individuals and organizations. Visit training.yipa.org today to learn more. That's training.yipa.org.

Paul Meunier 

Sarah, right before the break, we were talking about all your courageous things you've gone through in your life and turned out to be such a wonderful person as a result of all this stuff. I like to believe that all you've gone through is going to serve others really well. What do you think those experiences have taught you? And how can you use those experiences to give back to other people?

Sarah Mangan 

You and I talked a little bit about this idea of being a lifelong learner. And when you read my resume, you might hear that in there. So learning has given me some freedom to put words to what happened, and then help other people see themselves with a different perspective also. So what I've learned about is resiliency and that's not personal to me, that's a human characteristic. I've learned about neuroplasticity, that we can literally change how our brains function to the better. We have control there. I have learned about how to engage our parasympathetic nervous system to induce relaxation, on purpose. I think these are real things that I needed, that I didn't know how to get. And now I can share those things with people. And it's pretty powerful.

Paul Meunier 

Yeah, it's wonderful that you're taking all that and turning it into a gift for others. And when we were getting to know each other you were talking about you just are always looking for the best way to help other people. And that's probably why you have that long laundry list of things that you've accomplished so far in your life. Where does that passion to help other people come from? Why are you so into making sure the world is a better place for other people?

Sarah Mangan 

I think this might be where I should give a shout out to Essence Blakemore. I listened to her podcast and it was amazing.

Unspoken note from Editor 

You can listen to Essence Blakemore's podcast, "Being Young is Hard" at training.yipa.org/podcast

Sarah Mangan 

And then I come to find out that she's 22 and it was like wow, wow, wow, wow! If I had known what she knows when I was 22, like, wow, she inspired me a lot. We're responsible, we really are responsible for one another. And I feel that comes in through my spirituality. And it also comes in from this perspective of like, every single person matters. We all have something like special and unique, and it matters. And we are connected. When we can get together and feel safe, man, that can change the world.

Paul Meunier 

Yeah, and I know you've lived for those moments, I can just tell. I can hear it in your voice. When we get to certain points in our conversation, I can see it in your face when we get to certain points is that your emotions and your realness and humanity are just at the surface all the time. Has that ever been kind of a liability for you? Because I see it as like sometimes it must be hard to just be so open and transparent.

Sarah Mangan 

Oh, well see, the funny thing is right, like I can't put it away. And I think that is what made life really painful. I've been feeling in a big way for a long time. And I think it's really painful when you look around and you see so much suffering, and so much injustice, and people treating other people just so poorly, it breaks my heart. So I think that any opportunity that I personally have to lift someone up, or to remind them that we are connected, I need to take that opportunity.

Paul Meunier 

I'm wondering if there's a connection here, as I've been listening to your talk, when you were doing drugs and alcohol, there's that instant kind of high that instant kind of gratification. It feels like you get that same buzz from helping other people. But this time in a very productive and healthy sort of way. Would you say there's a connection there? Are there any parallels whatsoever? Or am I just wishfully trying to tie two things together?

Sarah Mangan 

Ooh, I like it. No, it's never really occurred to me on a conscious level. But I think the connection, the similarity is the sense of being alive. I am alive when I connect with other people and we are in a moment together, I'm aware. And I think that that false sense of getting there with drugs and alcohol is very similar. And I talked to people for a long time when I provided chemical dependency treatment, you can get there you can get to that euphoric, blissed out place that you're looking for. But it isn't instantly, it's a slow burn. It's a spiritual connection, in my opinion. And there is something very similarly, like, exciting. So that's, that's a real interesting parallel. Thank you for that.

Paul Meunier 

Yeah, I do think that that is a big part of why a lot of youth workers get into this field is, it's those moments that you get when you know a young person has learned something, or that you're finally connecting with them on an emotional level. It is a shot of dopamine, it is an adrenaline rush to be able to feel like ah, there's that moment I've been waiting for. And sometimes you have to work hours or days or weeks to get to that point with different young people. But when you get that moment, it just makes you want to come back for more. And I think I see that in you. Because I can tell you get so much satisfaction and personal gratification out of that. And I did say earlier in the podcast, I wanted to come back and talk about your gratitude. And I think that that is the one attribute that just strikes me so obvious about you and how grateful you are for this opportunity to live life and to have these moments where you can share with other people. As somebody who went through so much struggle as a young person with alcoholism, dependency, all those kinds of things that you went through, your sexuality. You came out as like the most grateful person I've ever met. Why are you so grateful?

Sarah Mangan 

Oh, Paul, thank you. Every day, all these days, are unexpected blessings. I didn't think I was gonna make it this long. I didn't think I'd be here. Recovery in its various forms has given me a second chance. I remember that every day. So I think I actually think gratitude is a superpower and it is a cultivated and intentional mindset. And I have spent years in an attempt to transform what has been painful into something that can be of use. And this is the vehicle, gratitude is the vehicle through which that has occurred.

Paul Meunier 

Wow. I think that's a beautiful lesson is that we can't predict what tomorrow is going to bring. All we can do is be grateful for the moment that we have right now. You are so grateful and I'm wondering, do you use those lessons of gratefulness with the people you work with, whether you were doing mental health counseling drug and alcohol treatment for adults, or now with young people, do you share that kind of perspective about just be grateful for the moment we have right now.

Sarah Mangan 

I absolutely try to, I think that it's pretty tough to really explicitly tell someone to be grateful. But I think we can model that behavior. And we can talk about it, it's a change, like I said, it's a change in perspective. So instead of saying, like, I have to do something, I can also say, I get to do this, I choose to do this, it's an opportunity. And I think that just kind of reworking some of that language is absolutely something I bring into my work.

Paul Meunier 

That's great, it's gonna be a wonderful lesson that you can share with other people. And sometimes when people are down on their luck, or they're going through drug and alcohol treatment or young people who are struggling with their identity, or just how they fit in, or the circumstances that they're living in can feel like they're not grateful. They feel almost burdened by life. And it's wonderful to give them that counter perspective.

Sarah Mangan 

And I also don't want to say, I really just to clarify quickly, you know, an attitude of gratitude is not a Pollyanna, like, there are no problems. It's a balance of hope and concern. I am concerned, I worry, I am very concerned. I am also simultaneously very grateful. So I don't want to suggest that like we should be grateful for all the things and all the struggles all of the time. It's a process and it ebbs and flows. Definitely not a straight line.

Paul Meunier 

Good clarification. Sarah, we're almost out of time together, it goes by so fast. But I do want to thank you for all you pour into other people, your heart and soul are 100% into this. And I'm so grateful that you've chosen to now make the leap into helping young people because I know that they're going to connect with you. I know they're gonna feel your love and the gratitude that you have to offer. And I'm just so thankful that you're doing what you do. So thank you for helping other people.

Sarah Mangan 

Right on this has been such a neat opportunity. I'm really grateful to have been able to meet you and talk about it.

Paul Meunier 

Sarah, at the end of each episode, I ask our guest what words of wisdom or inspiration would you like to leave with the listener. So what words of wisdom or inspiration would you like to leave with the listeners?

Sarah Mangan 

We're all in this together. You are not alone, and we are safer in connection. So reach out.

Paul Meunier 

If you would like to share your passion for youth work, we'd love to spotlight you as a guest. If you have feedback about the show, please let us know. Just visit training.yipa.org. That's training.yipa.org and click on the podcast tab. This podcast is made possible in part due to a generous contribution from M Health Fairview. I'm your host Paul Meunier. Thanks for listening to The Passionate Youth Worker.