Ryan Berg 

You know, it was really eye-opening, too. As a white, CIS, middle class man I kind of had my finger on the pulse of politics to a certain extent. Thought of myself as progressive but really had no understanding of how systems work and don't work for folks who are marginalized. And I think once that veil was lifted, it was really hard to turn away from the work.

Paul Meunier 

Hello, I'm Paul Meunier, the executive director of the Youth Intervention Programs Association, and I'm a youth worker at heart. How lucky am I, I have the privilege to meet youth workers from around the globe and learn their stories and share them with the entire world. I'm glad you're listening because together we'll learn how their life experiences shape their youth work. As you listen, I encourage you to consider how your experiences shape what you have to offer young people. Welcome to this edition of The Passionate Youth Worker. Hi, everybody. For this episode, we're joined by Ryan Berg from Minnesota in the United States. Ryan is the program manager for the ConneQT host home program for Avenues for Youth. They provide LGBTQI+ youth culturally responsive housing within their community of choice. He started his professional career in theater and eventually switched to youth work. He's a warm and compassionate supporter of our young people. And we're glad he's here with us today on The Passionate Youth Worker podcast. Ryan, thanks for being our guest.

Ryan Berg 

Paul, thanks so much for having me.

Paul Meunier 

Well, it's wonderful to have you here and eager to get going. So, are you ready to get started?

Ryan Berg 

Yeah, let's jump in.

Paul Meunier 

Great. Ryan, you started out pursuing a life of theater and all that goes along with it, the lifestyle kind of I think of theater in that way. What was it about theater that drew you towards that?

Ryan Berg 

Oh, good question. You know, I was a fairly introverted kid. And I kind of stumbled across theater in middle school, and was asked to audition for a show. And I had no idea that it was within my wheelhouse, didn't know that I had a particular talent towards that and learned quickly that there was a lot of excitement and joy in putting on another persona and kind of delving into other stories. The older I got, the more I was interested in how stories impact others and the telling and sharing of stories and talking about, you know, who has the power to tell certain stories, and how those stories impact your community. So really, I was drawn into like the community aspect of doing theater, and the potential for digging in deeper and using it as an apparatus for greater understanding of ourselves and our communities.

Paul Meunier 

That's a great way to look at it. And I've heard that about people in theater or in comedy is sometimes that they are kind of introverted, and it's a great way for them to then express themselves in an alternate sort of way. And for you, that seemed to be the case. Do you come from a family of people in theater or were you off on your own in this whole adventure?

Ryan Berg 

Oh, off on my own in this whole adventure. My family, I grew up in Iowa, and my father sold farm machinery and my mother worked at a gift store. The arts were not really centered in our lives so much. It was more kind of a sports-centric community. And I had an older brother who was very kind of like sports focused. So yeah, it was definitely I was kind of an outlier when it came to my interests and pursuits. Music, and theatre and writing were all things that were really important and meaningful to me. And I'm not sure my family understood that so much but were receptive and open to it.

Paul Meunier 

Well, that's great that they were supportive of it. And so, you came from a town in Iowa, and then you pursued theater, not only do you just pursue it, you move to New York, right, the capital of the theater district.

Ryan Berg 

Yeah.

Paul Meunier 

Did people understand what you're trying to do? Maybe they were supportive, but do you think people got what you were trying to get out of that?

Ryan Berg 

Yeah, I mean, I think there's a cohort of folks that are kind of similarly minded. You know, New York's theater obviously is dictated by Broadway and by money and capitalist pursuit. But there are a lot of experimental theater artists and off-Broadway theater artists that are really focused more on impactful storytelling rather than the bottom line. So there definitely were some folks you know, before I ended up in New York, I was in San Francisco doing theater and then in Italy for a short while doing theater. And so when I ended up in New York, it was almost a little bit of a letdown to see how much the bottom line dictated what was being produced and how audiences were allowed to kind of like journey into these stories. So, yeah, I mean, it was a little bit of a discouraging experience. I mean, I worked at a prominent Theatre Company, I was a literary assistant, I was a dramaturge, I was a company manager, I acted in a few shows. But really it was, I kind of butted up against some frustration around who I was talking to, because it felt like such an insular community of folks who were actually going to see the shows, and I wanted a broader, deeper conversation.

Paul Meunier 

That's interesting, because you don't really think of it that way. I guess for me, as somebody who's not in the theatre community, I don't see it that way at all. I see it as a big open community. And you're saying it maybe isn't like that, and you threw in the word, capitalism, moneymaking kind of twist to it. Is that a big part of like the frustration part that you ran into with it?

Ryan Berg 

For sure. It was, you know, limiting what stories were getting financed, to be told. And so, I think you kind of have to fit in a certain box. Pushing the boundaries too much, you know certain theaters were very open to that but they were typically the smaller, more progressive theaters. The ones that were kind of like the engines to the theater apparatus were definitely much more interested in kind of playing it safe to ensure that their ticket holders, annual ticket holders were satisfied with you know, and not too uncomfortable with the material that was being presented to them. So yeah, I mean, that that kind of puts folks in a box and limits what they're able to discuss, you know, and journey into, which I think is an important piece to be able to really explore and kind of spread your wings as an artist.

Paul Meunier 

Yeah, so you truly are an artist at heart. And even those things you're talking about sounds like they were appeasing their shareholders almost like it's sounds like a corporate environment.

Ryan Berg 

Yeah.

Paul Meunier 

And I can see why that wasn't appealing to you based on what you've just described. Neither your mom or your dad was into theater, art wasn't part of the culture in your family. But are you at all any way like your mom and dad? Are there characteristics that you carry with you that were part of them today?

Ryan Berg 

Oh, of course. We're all products of our families and our environments. Yeah, my mom definitely has kind of a creative spark to her just never really kind of pursued that much. But just in the way that she kind of decorates her home and kind of presents the world around her. It's very much through the lens of beauty, art and impact. Yeah, my dad and I are, we look identical. Our personalities couldn't be more different. He's very pragmatic, and type A kind of personality. But you know, I have, I guess, some personality traits that would probably match his. But as far as just kind of the lens we look through, very different. But again, it's one of those things where you can appreciate someone for their differences. And, you know, family's family.

Paul Meunier 

Yeah, for sure. And so, you then moved to New York, got into it. But somehow you made a transition into working with young people from theater. Can you describe how you got from hopes of being involved with that community to all of a sudden a different community, and that is helping and support young people. How did you move into that?

Ryan Berg 

It's a really good question. I think, professionally, like I mentioned, I felt like it was a very kind of insular world that I was working within. I wanted to have deeper conversations, I wanted to have more impactful engagement with community. And in my personal life, I think I was kind of feeling isolated and not really integrated into the larger kind of LGBTQI community within New York. And I literally saw an ad on Craigslist for a job working with LGBTQI youth, it was first a mentoring program. And I thought, well, they're gay, I'm gay, we'll have so much in common. And that was kind of my entry into the work through this mentoring program for youth that were in a group home for LGBTQI youth in Brooklyn. And I was wholly unprepared for what I was about to experience and recognizing the, you know, how power and privilege shows up and different advantages and disadvantages that folks may experience based off of intersectional identity. So just not the kind of queerness was at the heart of this but so much around how folks are impacted by systems and structures and family systems and whatnot. I really my understanding of kind of racial and economic justice was really contested. Crime, poverty, what it meant to be experiencing homelessness, my understanding of all of that was really put to the test. And it really pushed me to learn more and understand more so when the job through the agency that put together that mentoring group came up and I applied for it and without any youth worker experience was offered the position.

Paul Meunier 

Well, that's often how it goes in our field, right? If somebody just has a passion or desire to do it, sometimes we're just happy to get those people. So, when you got the job and you started working, did you know right away, this is going to be a good thing for you or you said, there's a lot of exposure and just kind of unpreparedness. So, were you ready or did you think, man, I made a mistake? Where were you at when you first kind of dove into it for real?

Ryan Berg 

A bit of both. I think it was kind of a both/and situation. There were moments where it felt just hand in glove, it felt like a natural fit. It felt like this was what I was kind of meant to do. When I was telling friends about the work that I was embarking upon a lot of the response I got was, Oh, that makes perfect sense for you, knowing you, like, folks hadn't thought of it previously, for me, but that it made sense. But getting into the work and recognizing all of the barriers and systemic challenges and just how the lack of resources and how programs were underfunded, and workers were overworked and overburdened and underpaid. All of those pieces became really clear and apparent to me in the beginning months of the work, and oftentimes challenged my faith in my ability to kind of push through and continue to show up. I luckily had a really wonderful mentor who was the person who hired me to do this work. And I was able to really kind of process through some of those challenging thoughts and feelings that I was having around what this looked like. You know, it was really eye-opening too. As a white, CIS, middle class man, I, you know, kind of had my finger on the pulse of politics to a certain extent. Thought of myself as progressive but really had no understanding of the way how systems work, and don't work for folks who are marginalized. And I think once that veil was lifted, it was really hard to turn away from the work.

Paul Meunier 

And you even wrote a book about this. I believe it's called No House to Call My Home. Is that right?

Ryan Berg 

Yeah. No House to Call My Home: Love, Family, and other Transgressions. Yeah.

Paul Meunier 

Yeah. What inspired you to write that book and can you talk a little bit about it?

Ryan Berg 

Sure. Yeah, it chronicles my time working with the youth in New York City. So, I worked at two group homes, the one I mentioned in Brooklyn, and another one in Queens. And it was a part of the same program for LGBTQI youth that were in group homes and foster care. The impetus behind writing the book is recognizing that this was an invisible crisis, that LGBTQI youth are over-represented in foster care and systems and counts of youth experiencing homelessness, and that there is really this pipeline between being systems-involved and the experience of homelessness, and it's just, it's doubly impacted by those youth that are LGBTQI and BIPOC. And I was not hearing and this was in the early 2000s. And I was not hearing much about this particular subset of the population that was just so intensely impacted by all of this. And there was a lack of resources, a lack of culturally competent and culturally responsive supports for those young folks. So, the book really came out of, again, my attempt to partake in a larger conversation, hopefully to engage folks in recognizing that there were all of these youth who are denied their own dignity, right, and that we need to do better as a community in showing up for these young folks. So, really around sharing stories, which I think and hope, build empathy in order to evoke change in young people's lives and how systems are impacting their lives.

Paul Meunier 

Wow, what a cool idea to write a book about that experience. And not only did you write a book, I guess it did pretty well, right? You have won some awards. Can you talk a little bit about how your book was received by the literature world?

Ryan Berg

Sure. Yeah. So yeah, won the Minnesota Book Award for general nonfiction, and then won an award called the NCCD Award for a Just Society. It's the only award for social justice in literature. And then it was listed as a top 10 book by the American Library Association for LGBTQI books of the year. So yeah.

Paul Meunier 

Nice. It’d probably be really good reading for some of our listeners who work with LGBTQI+ community. Where can people find your book? Do you have a website or can they just go to...

Ryan Berg 

Local bookstores. I strongly encourage folks if they're interested in buying a book to go to a local bookstore. So, there's a great website called indiebound.org. You can do a search of a book and then it'll show the closest independent bookstores close to you. And if they don't have it in stock, they can order it for you.

Paul Meunier 

That's great. So, is ‘indy’ i-n-d-y?

Ryan Berg 

 i-e.

Paul Meunier 

i-e. Ah, ‘indie.’ Well, great. Thanks for sharing a little bit of your background with us. It's hard to believe we have to take a short break. But we'll be right back with Ryan after this short message.

Jade Schleif 

No matter how you support our young people, The Professional Youth Worker, powered by YIPA, has your training and learning needs covered. Visit training.yipa.org, that's training.yipa.org to see for yourself, and then join the 1000s of youth workers around the globe who learn from our easy to access exceptional trainings. From our blogs to our podcast, The Professional Youth Worker is your go-to resource for tools to help you keep going, keep learning, and keep growing. Members enjoy free unlimited access to Live Online and On-Demand trainings, and a preferred discount pricing for our one-of-a-kind certificate course. Annual memberships are ridiculously affordable for individuals and organizations. Visit training.yipa.org today to learn more. That's training.yipa.org.

Paul Meunier 

Ryan, right before the break we were talking about your book and some of the things that you learned from your lessons with that. And you also had mentioned that you had a great mentor. What was one piece of advice that that mentor gave to you that you think still resonates with you today?

Ryan Berg 

You know, I think one thing that really stuck out to me was, you know, being new to the work, I often would get stuck in kind of the emotional responses that young people would have. You know, if I were to suggest that they do a chore or follow up on an appointment, sometimes that kind of like the emotional tumult that would kind of come with that was very new to me. And so, really learning through this mentor that all behavior is an attempt to communicate an unmet need and that we need to look under, below the actual behavior. That's just the surface what's at the root of the behavior? And that was really the first time I had thought about that. In relationship also to the fact that so many people that we were working with, were failed by adults time and time again. And part of natural adolescent development is to push boundaries, to test, to see are you going to stick with me or are you going to abandon me or, you know, turn your back on me, like others have been in the past. So, providing that context for me was incredibly powerful and important to help me kind of shape my responses and be present and show up for young people in those moments that felt tense or emotionally difficult for me. So, I could recognize that, Oh, this isn't actually about me. This is much deeper than that.

Paul Meunier 

Yeah. Wonderful words of wisdom. And I always think like people who get that concept and realize it's not about them as a youth worker, it's about the young person. And usually, it's trauma they're dealing with and they're dealing with some sort of coping mechanism or coping strategy that probably serves them pretty well in some unsafe environments. It's just not helpful for you and your work with them so you have to figure out how to get by that. What do you think the most valuable lesson you've learned from young people, Ryan, is in your work with them now that you're engaged and fully committed to their well-being?

Ryan Berg 

Wow, good question. You know, their resiliency, their savvy, their intelligence, their ability to keep showing up for themselves regardless of the past that they've experienced. The fact that they still have hope for a better future and a better life, regardless of systems really breaking down and failing them, adults failing them, social workers, failing them, people in their lives and in their families. But there is this resilience and that this desire to keep striving and soldiering on regardless of what they've endured in the past, is incredibly eye-opening, hopeful, I think most adults would kind of crumble under the same circumstances that young people have experienced, and they keep moving forward. And also, their willingness, like if you show up, and you are consistent in your caring in a young person's life, the gift that you get back is trust. And you know, I think there's a quote, "change happens at the speed of trust." And I think that's, I think that's accurate. I think if you remain consistent and keep showing up in ways that are meaningful to a young person, there's a great opportunity to build connection, to build community, to have an authentic relationship with a young person that's not just service oriented, but it's really integrated in no one is an island. We all need supports and we all can be there for one another so it's reciprocal.

Paul Meunier 

Yeah, young people are so resilient and at the end of the day it is about trust, like you talked about. In your experience, Ryan, do you think every young person is there seeking some sort of support and trust or do you think some are just untouchable? What are your thoughts about that? I know society wants to think that some young people are just beyond reproach. But I don't know if I buy that. What are your thoughts about that?

Ryan Berg 

I don't believe that at all. I think there's potential for trust building and relationship building with everyone. I think the difficulty is to manage our own adultism in those moments so kind of happen on our timeline. And I think oftentimes within the program that I manage where folks in the community open their homes and provide food and shelter, and then we provide services and support, there may be an expectation that a youth will meet me where I'm at. Well, that's not our that's not the youth job. Our job is as caring, consistent adults is to show up and be there to meet youth where they're at both emotionally and physically. And so, if a youth has been failed by adults time and time again, obviously trust building is going to take more time. So, managing our own expectations around what we think success may look like or what should be happening in that kind of relationship building process, we kind of have to check ourselves a little bit and recognize that if we remain carrying against us in the armor that they've built up, right as a survival skill, will start to kind of come down a bit to allow in some vulnerability, to allow those relationships to kind of build and foster and grow. There's that great quote, I think it's something like "when a flower doesn't bloom, we don't change the flower, we change the environment, the flower grows in." And I think that's the piece that we need to remind ourselves of, we're part of that environment. So, if what we're doing isn't working, we don't change the young person, the young person isn't the issue. It's the environment. And so, being cognizant of that we're a part of that piece, and that we have to be malleable and adjust in order to meet that need. I think it's super important.

Paul Meunier 

Right on, well said. And I think it is our responsibility to try to meet young people where they're at. And sometimes I think the well-being of young people in totality, if you think about that, is more of reflection on us as adults and the systems we've created around them than it is on them in general. Because after all, they still are developing and evolving and trying to identify who it is that they are and how they fit into this world. Given that, if there's one thing you could change about the field of youth work or the environment that you work in, not particular to your job, I don't mean it that way. But what would you change if you could, if you were king for the day, Ryan, and you could redesign the field of youth work what would you do?

Ryan Berg 

You know, what I kind of see across the board is there are great agencies and programs doing great work but are under-resourced, over employed workers getting less than what they need to actually survive. I know some youth workers that are on the verge of housing instability themselves. I think in order to create a robust and healthy ecosystem for young people and workers to thrive, we need to value this work more. And I think, you know, the Minnesota Legislature did a great job this year and providing some additional money. But I think there's always room for improvement. I think there's room for improvement when it comes to training, too. I think we talk about buzzwords within youth work, what trauma informed means, what harm reduction means, what journey-oriented means. And you can see that in different agencies that kind of work in different silos. They may have different understandings around this. So, having a more comprehensive understanding around what does it mean to journey into an experience with a young person through the lens of being trauma informed? What does it mean to utilize the tools of harm reduction? And then what does it mean to kind of build those authentic relationships with young folks. Having a shared understanding and knowledge kind of as our foundation and base, I think would be super important. And then the last piece I would say is, as mostly white-lead organizations working primarily with youth of color, I think it's super important that youth see themselves reflected back in leadership within agencies and organizations. So, I think we need to be more comprehensive, and push really hard and resist against white saviorism, and ensure that folks see themselves within the agencies, they're looking for what support

Paul Meunier 

Well, I wish I could crown you king for the day because that would be great changes and all those things are so important to the field and the well-being of young people and it's a shame that some people are doing this righteous work of trying to make the world a better place by helping young people are having hard times financially making ends meet. That has to change, that just has to change. What do you think, Ryan, is something unique about you that only Ryan Berg would understand, that you can bring to the field of youth work as a tool or as a component that makes you better in supporting young people.

Ryan Berg 

You're asking the hard questions today, Paul.

Paul Meunier 

It's only because, Ryan, I know you've got a good answer in there.

Ryan Berg 

No, I think it's something that we all have in us that maybe we tend to push away from. I think what I've learned through doing this work is the more I do it, the less I feel like I actually know. But I think what I've learned most recently with young people is when there is conflict, when a childhood wound has been triggered, and touched, and it's coming back at me, or if I've done something where maybe perhaps I've said a microaggression or I've accidentally said something racist that I was unconscious of and I'm being called out on that, that I don't lead with my ego and start to defend my position. But that I actually stop, I take a breath, I center relationship not ego. I listen, I lean in with curiosity, and humility. And I think that has been a huge shift in my work is, you know, I think naturally as human beings and in a very individualistic society, we're kind of taught to center our ego. And so there are those moments where we have to push against that conditioning and really lean into how that conditioning maybe the intent of it is good, but the impact of it, the youth are telling us, is bad. And so, we need to listen to when the youth is saying, Okay, I hear that your intent is this, but this has been the impact on my life. Okay, I need to stop, take a breath and pivot, and really listen and lean into that experience with that young person. And that's really hard to do, it's really challenging to admit when we've made that mistake or we've caused harm in any kind of way. So, then our work is to work towards repair. How do I repair this? How do I do better? How do I show up differently?

Paul Meunier 

You had a wonderful answer. That's why I ask you hard questions. And our ego does get in the way, it's so hard to let that go. The ego is very selfish. And I struggle with that sometimes myself, and to just let go and not feel so personally involved with it but understand the situation better so that you can move forward. Great answer. I have one more question for you. And there may be a connection here and there may not be. I'm just so intrigued by people who are involved in the arts and theater and stuff like that. And I'm wondering, do you see any parallels or similarities between living and being a professional in the theater world to living and being a professional in the youth work industry? Do you see any parallels there?

Ryan Berg 

For sure. I think one thing that really stands out to me, the first thing I thought of when you were asking the question is the need to be present in the moment, to stay present in the moment. Oftentimes in life, we're able to check out and just kind of phone it in.

Paul Meunier 

Yeah.

Ryan Berg 

And this work requires you to be present. So, and same with theater, you have to be kind of in the moment. And also, within I mean, acting in particular, I think, you know, part of the work is to respond to your scene partner, to respond to who you're on stage with. When you go through theatre training that's all the work. It's about how you have to respond to what's being presented to and I think that's the same in youth work. You have to be present in that moment to kind of be available to be emotionally vulnerable, to be able to receive in order to respond and shape your responses accordingly.

Paul Meunier 

Wow, that theater training prepared you pretty well for moving into this field, even though you didn't have experience or really not sure what you were getting into, the training was very appropriate it sounds like.

Ryan Berg 

I would say so.

Paul Meunier 

Ryan, it's been wonderful getting to know you. I am so grateful that you are working with LGBTQI+ community and supporting them, and being there for them in that authentic, meaningful in-the-moment sort of way and developing that trust with them. Because it is so needed in all young people, but especially in that community because they are so over-represented, in so many things that are not good about our society. And I'm really glad that you made the shift from theater to youth work because I've got to believe you are changing lives. And now, as a program manager, you're probably helping shape other youth workers learn the craft of getting good at it as well. So, thank you for all you have done and all you will continue to do and thank you for being a guest on our podcast.

Ryan Berg 

Yeah, thank you so much. It's been a joy to talk with you and kind of delve into these larger questions. I really appreciate the opportunity.

Paul Meunier 

Ryan, before you go, you probably know I always give the guest the last word. So, what words of wisdom or inspiration would you like to leave with the listeners?

Ryan Berg 

So, a couple quotes came to mind when I was thinking about this. So, the first is the James Baldwin quote that I think is pretty famous that most people know which is, "not everything that is faced can be changed, but nothing can be changed unless it's faced." I think that is appropriate to the work that we do. And we have to recognize like we have to lean in to difficult conversations with superiors or other agencies. We often ask young people to take risks and we fail to do the same as organizations and youth providers. And then the last piece is a quote that came out of activism in Central Europe, which is "nothing about us without us is for us." Meaning we need to center youth voice we need to center youth participation, youth expertise in this work. They're the ones with the lived experience, and I think centering their world, their voice, and their perspective is central to the work that we do.

Paul Meunier 

If you would like to share your passion for youth work, we'd love to spotlight you as a guest. If you have feedback about the show, please let us know. Just visit training.yipa.org That's training.yipa.org and click on the podcast tab. This podcast is made possible in part due to a generous contribution from M Health Fairview. I'm your host, Paul Meunier. Thanks for listening to The Passionate Youth Worker.