Princess Kisob 

Being a woman of color and growing up as a child of color, I was categorized in many different boxes, and oftentimes felt quite misunderstood. I also saw various barriers that stacked up against me while trying to achieve my goals, while trying to be seen. And so, it became really evident to me pretty early that I wanted to change the world and by the way of removing barriers, particularly for BIPOC individuals.

Paul Meunier 

Hello, I'm Paul Meunier, the executive director of the Youth Intervention Programs Association, and I'm a youth worker at heart. How lucky am I? I have the privilege to meet youth workers from around the globe and learn their stories and share them with the entire world. I'm glad you're listening because together we'll learn how their life experiences shape their youth work. As you listen, I encourage you to consider how your experiences shape what you have to offer young people. Welcome to this edition of The Passionate Youth Worker. Hi, everybody, for this episode, we're joined by Princess Awa-Ada Kisob from Minnesota here in the United States. She is currently the vice president of programs for Big Brothers Big Sisters Twin Cities. Princess is a humble and quiet leader, a self-described introvert. But she's a strong advocate regarding social justice issues. She's made the most of the opportunities that have been presented to her and likes to do everything she does really well. Princess, thanks for being a guest on The Passionate Youth Worker podcast.

Princess Kisob 

Thank you so much for having me, Paul. I'm very excited to be here.

Paul Meunier 

It's gonna be fun. I'm ready to dig in. Are you ready to go?

Princess Kisob 

Can't wait.

Paul Meunier 

All right, let's do it. Princess as we were getting to know each other and just kind of having a general conversation, you casually mentioned to me that you never thought you would be where you're at today with your career as this vice president of this large organization. What did you mean, you didn't think you'd be where you're at today?

Princess Kisob 

Well, I think part of it is our path isn't always clear to us in our early days, you know. When we're growing up, we have a lot of dreams and aspirations. But what we can't account for are the individuals that we'll meet along the way. We can't account for how experiences will change our lives and our perspective. And so, I would just say like, I've just encountered so many different individuals, I've had very a diverse array of experiences, that really have just kind of zigzagged me around. And I just have really allowed myself to kind of walk by faith and you know, as opportunities present themselves, figure out like, how can I position myself here to do my best work?

Paul Meunier 

That's very well said. And I think sometimes life is just how you react to it, right? You can't always predict exactly what's going to be in front of you tomorrow, but you can decide how you want to react to it. And it sounds like you've made a lot of good decisions along the way. Did you think you would get into helping young people when you were a young person yourself? Is that something you envisioned yourself doing?

Princess Kisob 

Absolutely. I think from a young age, I have always tried to support individuals around me. And I think one of my first journeys into youth work, I was a youth myself. I saw other young people around me having struggles and challenges engaging with systems that they weren't very familiar with. And I wondered, you know, how can I integrate myself into this process, learn about this, and then share my knowledge. So, very much so. I really do believe that definitely being connected with youth has been a passion of mine for a long time.

Paul Meunier 

Wow. That's great because not a lot of people in this field when they're young think someday they're going to be doing this. A lot of us end up here, like myself, kind of indirectly and didn't really have this in mind. But obviously glad where we're at. Where do you think that idea of wanting to help young people support young people and kind of work against those systems that make it difficult for them, what do you think that comes from? Where does that drive or that purpose comes from?

Princess Kisob 

Well, I think part of it comes directly, I think, from my mother. She has always been really dedicated and determined to support other individuals. She has a very generous spirit. And she's a fighter, she's an advocate. And so, I think for me, it was a matter of within my sphere of influence, you know, where can I make that connection and how can I support people at my level? And also, I think for me, I was an only child growing up and so I had a lot of time to myself, but I knew that community was really important and being connected to other individuals, my peers, was really important to learn from their experiences, and share my experiences for them to learn from as well. So, I think a combination of like really just watching my mother, and her advocate spirit, and her generosity and wanting to help others, really set me up to be in a space to want to do work that supports our community as a whole and the future of our community.

Paul Meunier 

And your mother was a first-generation immigrant from Cameroon, is that right?

Princess Kisob 

That is correct.

Paul Meunier 

Yeah. And so, you have to have a fighting spirit and a leader to pack up and come to a whole new place and try to start all over. Can you describe like, why did your mom decide to do that and what do you think that meant to you? I mean, you obviously have made the most of it. But what was her driving factor to do that?

Princess Kisob 

I believe her driving factor to move across the pond, many, many ponds was really for more opportunities. And to, you know, build a new life for her future, and to also connect with other individuals that have like-minded desires to support people. You know, I think that sometimes in some developing countries, there's just not as many opportunities. And so I think in the United States, especially back in the early 90s, late 80s, this was a country that was seen and still today as the place for opportunities, as a place to get a fresh start, a new start, and to gain new experiences. And so I think education was a huge driver for her to come to this country, as well as just a job prospect as well.

Paul Meunier 

And now here you are, a leader in a large organization known throughout the whole country. I don't even know Big Brothers Big Sisters, maybe is that in other countries as well, it probably is, right?

Princess Kisob 

Yeah. Yeah.

Paul Meunier 

So, what she did really paid off, and as it reflects to your life, do you ever reflect upon that? Or does your mom ever say like, wow, look at what you've done? How was that? Because it really paid off for her. And you are living example of that.

Princess Kisob 

Yeah, she oftentimes tells me how proud she is of me, just how enamored she is with how far I've gone, and just my dedication and determination to keep, you know, excelling, keep growing, keep learning. And I think that's something that she instilled with me as well. I mean, I think, especially when you have a caregiver or a parent, who comes from another country, and maybe in my case, I was born here. And so there were some things that I understood about the United States and the American system, being a born citizen here, with that being one of my primary languages, that I was able to support her along the way. So, she kind of opened me to the fact that you never have to stop learning. There's always opportunities to gain. And that always when you meet new individuals always enter that space expecting to learn and gain something from them. And so, I think that is something that has really carried forward for me.

Paul Meunier 

Wonderful values. And when you were younger, you always knew you want to work with young people. What was your first role, what was the first thing you did in support of other young people?

Princess Kisob 

Well, the very first thing I did, I think, in support of other young people, well, it stemmed from going to take your child to work day. But ultimately, I ended up starting a nonprofit when I was about 13 or 14 years old. And it's called Kidzworld International. And our focus was really to support immigrant and refugee youth and helping them understand the American system and deportable crimes. And I just recognized that there was just sort of a gap in knowledge. And I also realized that these very young people that I was targeting specifically, you know, students in English as Second Language classes, were also educators in their household. So, similar to me, I recognized that they have the ability to cascade their knowledge to everyone in their family and support them for the greater good.

Paul Meunier 

Oh, kudos to you! Wow, you were a leader from a very early age and you've done some remarkable things along the way. And I can't imagine where you're going to be 10 years from now. That is incredible. So, those life experiences that you had, I don't remember how you described it, but you and your mom kind of worked as a tag team, you know, you kind of supported each other and you had things to do and she had things to do. How would that experience help you with your drive and your leadership and support of young people? That must have influenced you in a pretty big way.

Princess Kisob 

Yeah, I think one of the greatest way it impacted me was recognizing the ability to share power, share power across my peers, but also share power with people who might be younger than me or have different experiences for me. So, I think, you know, really what she taught me along from like being able to learn from one another, but to give autonomy back, or give it in general and create space for people to make decisions and to have voice. And so, I carried that into my youth work, because people listened to me when I was young, right. And so, I know that there's so much value from listening to the creativity of a young person, and looking and getting an opportunity to look through their lens.

Paul Meunier 

The ability of somebody to share power when they get that is a true testament of that person's inner self, I believe. Some people in this world get power and they never want to let go of it, they hang on to it, and they'll do desperate things to make sure that it doesn't slip away through their fingertips. And other people get power and realize their power is just meant to be shared. I hold that value in really high esteem. I think that's how I view the little bit of power that I have that's been bestowed on me is that it's my job to share it with other people. Do you find people in your work and other youth workers you've worked with, do a lot of people share that? Or are there some people who don't like to give the power to young people and want to kind of control and get them to do what they want to do versus helping the young person find their way? What is your experience with that?

Princess Kisob 

Well, I think it's definitely evolved over time. But I can say that certainly in the early years, and some of it is youth work but I think some of it is the dynamic of nonprofits predominantly is the fact that we believe that we're the experts. We believe that we know everything, whether it's because we've gone to X amount of trainings, or we have this degree and this background, and this education, that a lot of adults feel like maybe they didn't have a lot of power growing up. They've worked hard, they've worked really hard to assume a position, to assume a title, right. And part of that, I think, is just excitement. But they lose sight on the fact that they might have been that child who didn't have voice, who didn't have choice, who didn't have space to speak their mind, and share their experience. So, I think that historically, there lived a lot of rooms where nope, the adults knew exactly the youth workers, the staff felt like they had all of the answers. But I think now, especially today, more recently, we're recognizing that young people have a lot of wonderful things to share, and to give in this world. And they see the world in a different way. They're experiencing things in our world differently. I think the pandemic really opened us up to that. You know, we started to realize that the young people were experiencing the pandemic, the loss of connection in a different way than adults or in sometimes the exact same way. And I think that was also humbling to realize, like, you know, we're all carrying such strong emotions through some of these extremely traumatic events that have occurred as of recently,

Paul Meunier 

Well said. Are you comfortable in sharing your power with other adults in your work, too? And can you talk about that a little bit and how that plays out?

Princess Kisob 

Yeah, I mean, I think it's part of leading by example. Every chance I have. I mean, you have to know I think, as a leader that's kind of part of leadership is recognizing when you might need to make a decision unilaterally. But whenever there is room and space, to bring other individuals in to seek feedback, to even say, You know what, let me see what you can do with this really only builds greater opportunity and growth. I think when you see a merge, like when I share power with adults, with my peers, with my coworkers, I end up seeing like a merge of wonderful ideas, a blend of perspectives. So, I think it's really important. In fact, it's quite critical.

Paul Meunier 

I think about you and your mom sharing power. You've learned that lesson your whole life, and now you're carrying it forward and sharing power with other people because you see the benefit of working as a team, as collectively working at this and understanding everybody brings their skill sets in their abilities, just like you and your mom did. That's a cool circle that's now been closed and comes around again, time and time again in your life it seems like. We have to take a short break. But when we come back, I want to ask you more about your opinions as it relates specifically to youth work, so we'll be right back.

Jade Schleif 

No matter how you support our young people, The Professional Youth Worker powered by YIPA has your training and learning needs covered. Visit training.yipa.org, that's training.yipa.org to see for yourself and then join the 1000s of youth workers around the globe who learn from our easy to access exceptional trainings. From our blogs to our podcast, The Professional Youth Worker is your go-to resource for tools to help you keep going, keep learning, and keep growing. Members enjoy free unlimited access to Live Online and On-Demand trainings, and a preferred discount pricing for our one-of-a-kind certificate course. Annual memberships are ridiculously affordable for individuals and organizations. Visit training.yipa.org today to learn more. That's training.yipa.org.

Paul Meunier 

Princess, right before the break, I was talking about some questions that I'd like to ask you about youth work in general. And I want to know, just right off the bat, what's your favorite thing about working with young people?

Princess Kisob 

My favorite thing about working with young people is their spontaneity, their creativity, and their ability to kind of be unapologetically themselves most of the time, you know. I think as adults, we have masks that we like to put on. We like to show up in certain ways and present a certain way due to like socialization. But I feel like young people, especially at a certain age, you know, under a certain age, they're not so worried about what other people are gonna think. They're just gonna speak their mind. And so their level of honesty and truth is just admirable. And sometimes after like leaving a conversation with the child, you know, they might have really dug into me, but like, it was their unapologetic truth. And like working with young people has just helped me realize the importance of just accepting people's experiences as truth, whether I feel like I can connect to it or whether I align with it, but it's a practice, that just really helps them better understand the world around me.

Paul Meunier 

Young people don't give you a chance to be humble. They're going to question you and challenge you and if you're open to it, a lot of times they're right, and you get just remarkable self-growth out of that whole experience. On the opposite side of the coin, what do you think is the toughest part about being a youth worker?

Princess Kisob 

Well, youth working is sort of like a lifelong thing. I don't think you ever stop being a youth worker. However, what can be challenging is generation, growth, and age and sometimes feeling separate from sort of what's coming. And I think, change, perspective can be really difficult sometimes for youth workers. Whether it's, you know, as youth workers thinking that we're experts and we don't need to lean on young people to kind of show us the way, or vice versa. So, I really think some of the challenges with youth work is really related to creating space, and being open to just the new generation and how they see the world.

Paul Meunier 

Well said. And when you first became a youth worker back when you were young, what do you think the first big lesson you were taught by young people was, what have they shared with you, or experiences you've gone through together that have changed you in a pretty significant way?

Princess Kisob 

Hmm, I think my early days of youth work taught me the importance of being kind to people. You never know how your interaction with one person, how that might lead or what that might turn into. Whether that's another door opening, or whether you're going to meet them again. And they remember that experience. So, just remembering to like, be kind. Keeping in the forefront, like being empathetic. And considering how you're making someone feel. I think sometimes as adults, we can be a little bit rigid towards one another. And sometimes working with young people, you recognize how to be more sensitive and thoughtful with your words. And so that was one of the things that I learned really early on, to be very careful with how I speak and what I say, and when I say it. And recognizing that I think over time, trying to teach young people the same thing about just thinking about time and place. And recognizing like I want you to be able to freely express yourself, that's completely important. But also, being responsible and responsive and aware of what's around you and your situation is important. So, young people have just taught me to be mindful of my words and to remember to be kind.

Paul Meunier 

Great lesson that they've taught you and you sound like a self-actualized person because self-actualized people are very aware of what they say and why they say it, when they say it, or how they behave. And you just described that. That's a high level, in my opinion, of self-awareness. What is something that's just really uniquely Princess that you bring to this field and can share with others that maybe just perfectly describes that something authentic about you?

Princess Kisob 

Um, well, you did mention I'm quite quiet and I think that's true. But along with being quiet, I think I'm pretty curious and so I think curiosity is something that I bring to the table. I think always asking questions, but respectfully, is something that I don't know if it's a completely uniquely me, but I think my style in which I do it is quite unique. You know, I might not appear to be a very curious person right off the bat. But I really try to engage through understanding. And so, I'm always trying to seek to understand by asking more questions. And I think that is just something that makes me a little bit different. I also really center people, and communicating with people. And so like, sometimes, I might be a little bit late to a meeting because I decided someone stopped me and wanted to chat. And I think there's value in that. And then when I enter into that new space, you know, I explain like, you know, I took a few moments to talk with someone. And, you know, that was really valuable. Because again, you just never know what other people are going through. So, really taking the time to pause and centering the individual who's in front of me at that present time is something that I do think is uniquely me.

Paul Meunier 

Yeah, you're definitely present and with people. And I love your idea of curiosity, and bringing that with you. Why is that so important when working with young people that we have that sense of curiosity about us?

Princess Kisob 

Because it makes us avoid making assumptions. In a world that's sort of highly developed around stereotypes even where we can easily fall into just assuming and we like to bucket and categorize. I mean, it's a very American thing to want to box people up and you know, all of our applications, you have to be this or that, you can't be anything in between. And so, I think curiosity in working with youth really, you know, encourages me to have an open mind, and accept what's in front of me and not make any assumptions.

Paul Meunier 

That's great. And I long for the day and I think you do too and I bet you a lot of people do where we can get past that just stereotype of everybody fits into a box. And you're right, I think we do so much of that. And I think that is part of why we're at each other so much today, is we just quickly take one attribute about a person and think we understand them perfectly. And yet, we know how complex and subtle some of our behaviors and attributes are. And yet, we want to do that on a regular basis. And it's so disappointing. And I know too I also described you as strong leader as it relates to social justice and human rights. Can you talk a little bit about that, why is that such a focus for you?

Princess Kisob 

Well, I think being a woman of color, and growing up as a child of color, those very boxes that we were just speaking of I would get categorized in many different boxes. And oftentimes felt quite misunderstood. I also saw various barriers that stacked up against me while trying to achieve my goals, while trying to be seen. And so it became really evident to me pretty early that I wanted to change the world. And by the way of removing barriers, particularly for BIPOC individuals. I wanted to look at systems and how they operate, the history of why they operate the way that they do, and create inroads for everybody, for all people, but really, for Black and African American people, for immigrants and refugees, for LGBTQ plus individuals, and especially those individuals who are within those intersections. And so, I really believe passionately about, you know, when we are able to consider universalism, consider supporting individuals who have the most barriers stacked against them, we create a better world for everybody.

Paul Meunier 

I think we have a caste system here in the United States. And we have had that before we even became a country and one of the ways we divide people and to hold on to that power is through race and color of skin. And it's just an arbitrary made-up thing. And yet, it's so ingrained in our fabric that it's hard to penetrate that and it's hard to get that to change and to get people to even understand that that is something that's been around for four or 500 years here. Do you feel from your perspective as a person of color and a woman are things getting better or are things status quo, haven't really changed? I just ask you that in a real honest and transparent way as a white guy with all the privileges that society gives. What's your perspective on that? Are we making inroads?

Princess Kisob 

In some areas and in some communities. You know, it's not very broad scale, I think what you get in one community is very different than another community. And sometimes that could be a measure of equity because some spaces might need more resources and more support. But at the same time, I think, you know, the United States is so unique in the fact that all of our 50 states and then all the counties and cities within them have different standards and different guidelines, different leaders, different communities, and different perspectives. And so, I can't say that, yes, there has been a lot of positive change. Yes, there has been some advancements when it comes to ending racism, ending racist practices, discrimination and whatnot. However, we still do have a very long way to go. Because it's not okay, that, you know, I have some freedoms and rights here in Minnesota that might not be the same in other states and vice versa. And so, I think that we still have a long way to go. But there's certainly some progress. And I think part of that is, you know, representation, and allowing kids of color to see people like them in spaces that maybe historically they haven't been, because I think that visual does a big deal. But not just representation, but proximity, right. Being able to have like close access, access and connection. You know, I have a lot of wonderful women, you know, my mother, for example, who were close in my life, but even some of the people that like I really admired, like, for instance, Oprah, you know, she's so far away, I'm never gonna touch Oprah, right? But I mean maybe.

Paul Meunier 

Hopefully!

Princess Kisob 

But the reality is like proximity makes a really big deal, you know. And so it's important that our young people have people in their community who look like them, that can be mentors to them, that can support them, that can guide them, that can listen to them, and that can help them reach their full potential.

Paul Meunier 

Yeah, I think it's so easy to say, well, there's a few examples, Michelle Obama, you know, and Oprah. But there really isn't enough that a person, a young person, especially a young girl of color, could look around and say, there's examples all around me. And it's just there's these kinds of one-off examples that are so far away. I think that's a great way to describe it. And thank you for sharing your passion. I'm just always curious as I feel like as a white guy, it's a big part of my responsibility to help change that. And I'm glad that you're out speaking so well about all those issues. One of the things that gives me hope about this is our young generation seems to be less worried about color, less worried about all kinds of identities, political identities, and everything like that. And that gives me a lot of hope. It seems like they are less focused on trying to put everybody in a box. I wonder what your perspective of that is.

Princess Kisob 

I'm very proud of them. I am so grateful. And I think part of my job right now, in all the spaces that I engage is to set the stage and set the scene and prepare for the generation behind me. Because I've had the privilege of working with young people, I've seen this transition that you're talking about. I'm seeing that, you know, they don't want to be put in a box. They don't care about those things, as you stated. But that means that the systems that I'm working with, I need to prepare them to be ready to accept.

Paul Meunier 

Yeah, good point is they're really present and strong and not wanting to budge, right?

Princess Kisob 

Mhmm. So, it's like, how do I use my sphere of influence, to set it up for the people behind me to be successful?

Paul Meunier 

Well, good for you. And it has just been so enlightening and fun to get to know you and to hear about all the wonderful things you're doing and all the attributes that you have brought into the field of youth work. And the example of sharing power that you learned very early on, and your willingness to do that now is something that I very much admire, and I think a lot of people do as well. So, thank you for everything you continue to do and have done in the past. And I'm sure you're going to do in the future. And thank you for being a guest on The Passionate Youth Worker podcast.

Princess Kisob 

Thank you. It's been an honor.

Paul Meunier 

I feel the same way. Before we go, what words of wisdom or inspiration would you like to leave with the listeners?

Princess Kisob 

Well, I'd like to tell the listeners, no matter what age you are, to never stop learning. Never stop exploring. To never give up. And even on that path, there will be a lot of things that might get in your way. It's okay to take a break and it's okay to start over. Just remember whatever you do, do it with all of your heart.

Paul Meunier 

If you would like to share your passion for youth work, we'd love to spotlight you as a guest. If you have feedback about the show please let us know. Just visit training.yipa.org, that's training.yipa.org and click on the podcast tab. This podcast is made possible in part due to a generous contribution from M Health Fairview. I'm your host, Paul Meunier. Thanks for listening to The Passionate Youth Worker.