Jeff Dwyer 

I had to learn real quick that just being forward, open, and honest regardless of the situation, it's always gonna come out better on top if you're open and honest. It may not go your way all the time. But trying to get out of it, without being honest about it, will lead down different paths and it's not always pretty at the end of those paths.

Paul Meunier 

Hello, I'm Paul Meunier, the executive director of the Youth Intervention Programs Association. And I'm a youth worker at heart. How lucky am I, I have the privilege to meet youth workers from around the globe and learn their stories and share them with the entire world. I'm glad you're listening because together we'll learn how their life experiences shape their youth work. As you listen, I encourage you to consider how your experiences shape what you have to offer young people. Welcome to this edition of The Passionate Youth Worker. Hi, everybody. For this episode, we're joined by Jeff Dwyer from New York in the United States, where he is currently a prevention coordinator for the Police Activities League in Massena. Jeff was born in a small town and was highly involved in athletics. But in 1999, he decided that since he wasn't going to graduate from high school on time, he moved to California to find his purpose. But it wasn't until 2003 that he found it by joining the Air Force. That triggered the start of many adventures and living in countries around the world. And through it all, regardless of where he was in life, he always found time to engage with young people through sports. Today he's back in Massena and considers his work with young people to be his biggest accomplishments so far. Jeff, thanks for being a guest on The Passionate Youth Worker.

Jeff Dwyer 

You're welcome. I also want to say thank you for having me. I've listened to a few shows. And it's been a pleasure, every guest on there. So, I just want to be able to give what I can back to you guys for doing what you're doing.

Paul Meunier 

Cool. A great way to kick it off, Jeff, thanks for saying that. So, in the intro I talked about school was a little difficult for you, you struggled to complete high school on time. And I just was wondering, why do you think high school was tough for you, why school in general, why was it a little bit of a struggle?

Jeff Dwyer 

I don't think I was so much book smart as I was, I wanted to get out and experience life. I just didn't want to learn about in the classroom, I didn't want to learn about it from a book, I wanted to smell the fresh air, I wanted to go out into the forest and see what I could see. Life's a journey so why not start somewhere where the beginning of the trail and see where it takes you by the end of instead of sitting around doing nothing about it?

Paul Meunier 

I get it. You're one of those people that learns best by hands-on experiences, doing things, getting into it and exploring. And sometimes I think our school systems don't do a great job of meeting the needs of all our young people. And you're probably a perfect example for that. So, growing up in your family, Jeff, what was it like? Were your mom and dad pretty supportive of your school or how did that all play out?

Jeff Dwyer 

So, I was raised by my mom. My dad lived in another town. They were never married. I did end up having a stepbrother, stepsister and stepfather around 15-16 years old. It was, it was rough at first. Me and my mom didn't always see eye to eye. It was tough because I wanted to go one way down the tracks. She wanted me to go the other way down the tracks and just every now and then we'd end up on the same track, but it'd be head on instead of going the same way.

Paul Meunier 

Yeah. And have you ever connected with your dad? Do you know him very well or do you know much about him?

Jeff Dwyer 

Yeah, we have a good relationship. We had a rocky point here and there. But I mean, we all go through those trials and tribulations throughout life. And that's part of figuring yourself out is sometimes separating yourself from different family members or even your mother or father, or stepparents, or whoever is raising you at the time. Sometimes you just have to take that separate path and just kind of not block them out but put it off to the side and try to find yourself without anybody else trying to tell you how to be yourself.

Paul Meunier 

Yeah, I agree with that. That's part of adolescence, growing up being adventurous, finding out who you are despite what your parents tell you you should be or how you should act. You kind of got to learn that stuff on your own, which is the trials and tribulations of adolescence. Were your parents pretty supportive of your idea that you wanted to move away and move out, I believe it was with your uncle and your aunt in California. Were they supportive of that or are they going Jeff, what are you doing, stay here, finish school? What was that like?

Jeff Dwyer 

It was parents. They understood. They wanted to see me succeed. But at the same time it was I'm leaving home for the first time for a long time and it was just the first time I ever heard my real dad say I love you, and I'm gonna miss you. And then my mom, well my mom raised me so it was, it's kind of like that bird leaving the nest for the first time.

Paul Meunier 

Yeah.

Jeff Dwyer 

For a long trip. It was hard at first, but it's one day at a time, and you learn how to process it. And then you just move on. And then when you come back and visit, you take in the good times and you just kind of like forget about the bad times and just see where things lead.

Paul Meunier 

Yeah. It sounds like despite their maybe a little bit of concern, they seemed to support your decision and find your, I called it in the opening, kind of find your purpose. It seemed like they knew you needed to do that and were willing to let you go for the sake of that. Do you think you're a lot like either your mom or your dad? Do you carry a lot of their traits with you today?

Jeff Dwyer 

I have to say, yes, some good, some bad. I mean, not everybody's perfect. I mean, I carry a lot of the personality from my mom's side.

Paul Meunier 

Okay.

Jeff Dwyer 

I carry a lot of my looks, from what my mother says, from my dad's side. So, the athletic genes comes from both sides. My, I had uncles and aunts and my mom was even highly involved with sports. My father, my brother, and a few of my uncles were also highly involved in sports. So, those genetics kind of came across. I definitely don't get my hair from my dad's side. I can vouch for that one. But other than that, yeah, I got a little bit of the best of both worlds.

Paul Meunier 

Yeah, it sure sounds like it sounds like they might have taught you the values of grit and perseverance and being transparent and being just who you are because as we've gotten to know each other Jeff, those are some of the things that I think about you is that what you see is what you get, you're the real deal. What you present is exactly who you are. And do you think that has been helpful for you in life or has that sometimes played a detriment, you know, your ability to just be just so transparent.

Jeff Dwyer 

So, I'll go back to when I joined the military. I learned the hard way not to whitewash things, not to say something without knowing 100% true. I kind of I don't want to say fibbed, but I thought I was saying the truth. But I found out later on down the road that it wasn't the truth. I got slammed for it when I was in basic training. And a few other times in the military, I kind of tried to get my way out of it. But after a while, it's like I had to learn real quick that just being forward, open, and honest regardless of the situation, it's always going to come out better on top if you're open and honest. It may not go your way all the time. But trying to get out of it without being honest about it will lead down different paths. And it's not always pretty at the end of those paths. And I've learned recently too being open and honest, it's hard but at the same time, don't hide behind it, if you have nothing to hide, regardless of what other people are gonna think of you.

Paul Meunier 

Yeah, it's a tough skill to do, right. Because we all want to protect our ego, we all want to be, I guess, maybe present ourselves to the world in a certain sort of way. And sometimes we are inconsistent with who we are and what we present as. So, it takes a lifetime to get good at doing what you just talked about. And so, you were out in California and I know you've moved a little bit to Colorado with some other people after you moved away from Massena. And then for some reason you decided to join the Air Force. What do you think was the big factor that said, ah this is what I need to do, this is a good route for me to go. What were some of those contributing factors?

Jeff Dwyer 

Being homeless teaches you a lot. And when I mean homeless, I don't mean I was on the side of the street in a cardboard box or anything. What I mean by that is, I was staying on my buddy's couch, I had a bunch of my stuff in my truck, my truck got broken into so I had a lot of my stuff stolen. But then at the same time, I didn't have really a job to kind of like grasp at. I was trying to do what I could, where I could, when I could, and not knowing where you're going to eat that night, not knowing what you're going to eat that night, not knowing if your buddy is going to be like, Oh, by the way, I can't have you stay tonight kind of thing. And I'm thinking to myself, What would give me a roof over my head, three meals a day, an honest paycheck, and I'm like military. Then I broke it down, what military branch do I want to go into? And I broke it down to which one is the shortest and possibly the easiest. And I figured you know what, I have family members that went into the Air Force, I'm gonna go Air Force. And that's how I chose the Air Force. I know some people have this whole my mother did it, and my father did it, yada yada yada. I just, I needed to find something to keep me from going into the prisons, keep me off the streets, etc. So, that's why I chose the military. And I look back on it now and I don't regret anything.

Paul Meunier 

Yeah, it opened the door for you to see the world and provided maybe some of that purpose that we were talking about at the beginning, to find that. Seemed like you made a real, practical, rational decision. Would you describe that point in your life as probably like the low point? I mean, were you feeling hopeless or were you still kind of hopeful in some sort of way? Or was that just kind of rock bottom?

Jeff Dwyer 

That was rock bottom. But I mean, it takes more than just something like that to slow me down. You find the drive. And then once you find the drive, you have a goal at the end of the tunnel. And my goal is just to be able to get back home, see family before I got in the military, and then go into the military and see where the journey takes me. And then after that, it just kind of proceeded from there.

Paul Meunier 

Yeah. And the journey with the Air Force took you all over the world. You lived in different Air Force bases within the country but also outside of the country, and different sometimes exotic places, including a tour in Afghanistan. And I know when you were there in 2007,

Jeff Dwyer 

Actually, let me correct you on that one. It wasn't that I went to Afghanistan. I was in the process of going to Afghanistan.

Paul Meunier 

Oh, sure.

Jeff Dwyer 

Yeah. I was at a place to train for that type of environment. And that's where that accident happened. It happened in Kansas. So, I just wanted to correct you on that before someone comes back from the military and goes, Oh, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So...

Paul Meunier 

Oh, for sure. Well, I'm glad you did correct it. But regardless of where you were, it was a pretty traumatic thing. Do you want to describe what happened and what the doctors were telling you? It doesn't sound very hopeful.

Jeff Dwyer 

So, pretty much what it was is we were right towards the end of our combat training, and we're doing a house-clearing exercise. And during those exercises, anything can happen. And you always got to be on your toes and be ready for it. So, my original position was the last man in. I turned into the first man into the next room. And they had a ground burst simulator, which is a training grenade. And I took that straight to my left foot, didn't realize it was underneath the building. To make long story short, it turned out to be a concussion, or full concussion break complete, shattered my left foot. And I had two surgeries, 14 pins, five casts, a total of a month and a half of physical therapy. But at the time, when I was still in the hospital, the doctor basically told me look, you're probably never going to walk the same again, you're never probably going to be able to walk the way that you want to walk. And then my me being me being a hockey guy I'm like, so what about ice skating? And he's like, Yeah, that's probably out of the window, too. You're probably not gonna be able to play hockey again. Well, that right there just drove me into another metaphorical way of saying, you know, I'm going to do what I want to do, and I'm going to be better than what it was. And six and a half months down the road after everything happened, I started playing ice hockey again. And we had a tournament within the military. And I played for a couple of the Air Force Base teams and got two shutouts in a row. It was either the teams weren't that good, or I was just on fire and trying to say, You know what, you can't tell me I'm not ever gonna play hockey again. So...

Paul Meunier 

Yeah, that's quite a story that the doctors were saying you probably wouldn't be able to walk or play athletics again and here you are six months later, playing goalie and getting a shutout game. That's quite a story. It really speaks to your character, Jeff, about ignoring some of the conventional wisdom in life and what people tell you and just setting your own course and setting your own path and going out and getting it. Seems like you've been doing that your whole life. What do you think being in the Air Force taught you? You went in there for a practical reason but it seems like you came out with much more of a deeper lesson. What did it teach you, to be involved in the Air Force?

Jeff Dwyer 

It brought out probably me being a lot more honest with people. Definitely my integrity. Like I said, it doesn't matter if you're wrong or right, just be true to yourself and to others and whatever happens happens. My sense of adventure grew. I was able to instead of just see it in the books or see it on TV or have an instructor tell me about it. I was able to go over to Japan and see different castle ruins, eat the food. Same thing in South Korea, just different things that you would only see perfect example watching MASH. I mean, just different things that you would think about watching MASH and what they did, being able to see the DMZ from a distance. Moving over to England, seeing a bunch of castles and just being able to play hockey and experience life over there and becoming like family to a lot of the people over in the UK. I got to travel all over Europe as well to either with the military, like Greece and Spain or on my own like Germany, Iceland, North Ireland, Ireland and a few other countries. I mean, I could sit here and talk about this all day. And then I also got the sense of pride. Not only in the US but a pride in myself and pride in others and just knowing that no matter where I go, I can strike up a conversation with anybody. And whether or not they want to reciprocate, then that's on them. But it's a simple fact that sometimes people like myself that have traveled a lot, or been in the military come off as arrogant or maybe over cocky every now and then. It's not that, it's just we're trying to share something. And that's what I think I learned in the military, along with my work ethic, it became stronger. But yeah, I think stuff like that, combined with the personality that I had before going in the military kind of like all combined and speaks to what it is today.

Paul Meunier 

Yeah, you get passionate about this stuff. When you start talking about it. As we were getting to know each other, when you start talking about this stuff, your passion level goes way up. What impressed me though, is you moved around and you went to all these different places. But seems like everywhere you went, you became friends with people and I mean, friends like you describe it as they took you in as like the pseudo son or the pseudo uncle or, you know, things like that. And you seem to make connections and relationships wherever you go. And I think that's what makes for great youth workers. I'm wondering all that time you've met these people, you've met cool people, you become friends with them. What do you think the biggest compliment anybody ever gave you was? Can you think back to somebody who just said something nice about you and you went Yeah, that's it. That's that feels good.

Jeff Dwyer 

Me and compliments, it's, for me, it's hard to be given compliments, or people saying good things about me. I don't know how to take them. God, that, I think that's a tough question. Actually, you know what, I do remember. One of the moms told me one time, she's a British mom and I became really close with her daughter through the semi-pro hockey team where she was a physio or physical therapist for the team to kind of like help loosen them up. And her mom sat me down right before I moved away and separated from the military. And she goes, you know, Jeff, I remember when so-and-so became part of the team, when another American and then you became part of the team. And I wasn't too fond of Americans. And You two came along and when it came to away trips, I was kind of iffy on letting my daughter go, even though she's an adult, I was still kind of iffy. But the more you and her bonded, the more you bonded with our family and the players on the team, every time she got on that bus, and I knew that you were going on that bus trip, I had nothing to worry about. You're that person that I knew that she's going to be okay, because you're on the bus. And to me, that speaks volumes. That speaks basically, we've only known each other for like three and a half, four years. But she had that much faith in me. She got to know me. And I got to know her and her family. And it was just one of those moments where I wanted to cry but I really didn't know how to because at times, I don't know how to take compliments.

Paul Meunier 

Okay.  Yeah. Well, I'm glad you thought of something because that is a wonderful compliment that she gave you and shows that she developed trust and you've represented the country well. So, thanks. As an American, thanks for representing us well. Jeff, it's hard to believe but we have to take a short break. But when we come back, I got more questions I want to ask you in particular about working with young people, so we'll be right back.

Jade Schleif 

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Paul Meunier 

Jeff, we're back and right before the break I was talking I want to talk a little bit more about your work with young people but I do have one more question I want to ask you and I was thinking about during the break is what do people misunderstand about you, Jeff? What like if they were to size you up really quick what do you think that they get wrong?

Jeff Dwyer 

So, I'm kind of gonna blow my head a little bit on my shoulder so I might have to kind of, you might see me turn into a bobblehead. But I do work out a lot. And I come off and appear as like some bodybuilders do. I mean, I'm not as big as a bodybuilder but I but I do lift a lot. And it's kind of like when you first see a motorcyclist and you see the tattoos and you see their bikes and the leather coats you kind of like perceive them as something else until you get to know them. I feel that some people see me like that, or they see me as too blunt, too forward, like you said transparent, which scares people off sometimes. But I think those are two of the things that people see me as before they get to know me.

Paul Meunier 

Yeah.

Jeff Dwyer 

And once they get to know me, they understand my sense of humor, they understand why I'm so forward, and blunt, and transparent. And when they tell me that I'm kind of big, I'm like, No, I just take the bicycle pump every day, and I pump them up, just to make sure I look good before I go out of the house. So, yeah.

Paul Meunier 

Well, I think that we all do that, right? We cast stereotypes and we've got these images of people that we have, and we kind of tend to shore people up right away. And sometimes that misperception is wrong. But what when people get to know you, they realize you really are a caring person. And you really do want to do your best for young people every time you have a chance to do that. And sometimes we forget how important that is. And it doesn't matter what our first impressions are, we got to get past that and get to know people. As a youth worker, Jeff, and somebody who's committed in various roles in a whole bunch of different ways even before your current job, you always were there to support young people, typically through athletics, but what have you learned about yourself that young people have taught you because I think young people teach us so much about ourselves if we're honest. Can you think of something you've learned about yourself being a supporter of youth?

Jeff Dwyer 

I don't know how this is gonna sound to some people. They might laugh, they might cringe a little bit, but that I have a heart. It's, it's something that I, I struggle with sometimes. And it's kind of funny that you asked me that because me and my mom and dad had this conversation the other night. And I told them I struggle with empathy. And I think that kids kind of broke through a part of that barrier that helps me realize, yes, I do have empathy. I just don't know how to use it, when to use it, and where to use it. But I know that I have a little bit there for them because when I get up and try to make speeches about them to people or at the time with coaching, it's like, I get to that point where I start to choke up. And I know that I'm about to shed a few tears. So, I try to like transition into something else and then I just kind of, but yeah, I think the kids have taught me that I have empathy, and a heart.

Paul Meunier 

I think you have a lot of empathy. And I think it just doesn't show as much as it does for some people. But I think it's definitely there. And the way you describe it as having a heart, I think that's very true. And young people, gosh, they don't let us escape empathy, right? When we hear their stories and hear the struggles that they have, it'd be almost cruel to not have empathy and to not have an awareness and a desire to want to help them. And you certainly do that. I'm going to ask you a deep question, Jeff. Why do you think like finding that sense of empathy was kind of tough, where did that come from?

Jeff Dwyer 

Probably a past family member basically stating that way back when I started talking about my problems, and they would turn around and be like, well, you know what, your problems don't matter to anybody else. So they have bigger problems, they have bigger things that they're worried about, they don't want to hear your problems. And so, I think that had a little bit to do with it. I also think it was part of my teenage life, too, because I really didn't care about anybody except for myself. I mean, I did have my little moments where I did care about things, but it was more about what am I going to get out of it versus what are they going to get out of it. How far can I go and how many toes do I have to step on to get there but what am I going to get out of it in the end. And slowly it's been I mean, over the past probably 15-20 years, I was still like that in some areas. But at the same time, I also learned that with being knocked down a few times in life, I had to kind of like switch gears a little bit and learn how to not be that person that I didn't want to be.

Paul Meunier 

Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. And one more question. It's hard to believe gosh, time goes by so fast. We're just engaged in such a deep conversation. What do you think in general, the most difficult thing about being a youth worker is?

Jeff Dwyer 

I think it's, I think you said earlier when you hear their stories, and even if it's not hearing it from them if you're hearing it from a family member or someone that's worked with them in the past that is now helping or now passing them on or not passing them on but like introducing them to our program. Just different things and then you get to know the know the kids. I know every single one of them by name and we have over 60 kids, I know a little bit about each one of those kids and where they come from, and what kind of atmosphere they're used to. And just knowing that about 60 plus kids, and that's like with all of us that work there, we know a little bit about everybody. And that's the hardest part is, who knows, at the end of the day, and maybe when they go home, at the end of the day, their life isn't gonna be as happy as it is for those three hours. So, seeing some of them get packed up and go home or turn around and just kind of like smile as they're walking out. And then you just see them do a 180. That'd probably be the hardest part about working with the youth.

Paul Meunier 

Yeah, I agree with that. It's amazing, Jeff, that you have turned your searching for purpose and what you've learned along the way in doing that into some sort of service back to other people. And I don't know if you quite see it that way. But I think you probably do, that you've taken your life experiences and learned how to share that with other people for the exact same reason that you looked for your own purpose is that young people are trying to find their way in the world just like you were. And sometimes really uncertain about what that would look like or what that would mean for them. But the idea that they can have just one caring person in their world, somebody who can relate with them, somebody who can just listen to them, and somebody who can have empathy for them, can change all that. Just like your decisions in your world have changed your trajectory. And so, I for one, am really grateful that you've gone this full circle, and here you are back in this small town, helping young people, doing good for your community, giving back. So, thank you for doing that. And thank you for being a guest on the podcast.

Jeff Dwyer 

Definitely.

Paul Meunier 

Jeff, before we go, what words of wisdom or inspiration would you like to leave with our listeners?

Jeff Dwyer 

I enjoy motivational speeches. And one of them that always stands out to me is one that Will Smith said in one of his movies where he looks down at his son and he basically says if you want something, go out and get it. If you have a dream, hold on to it. And don't let anybody stop you from achieving that dream, or that goal. That one kind of stands out, especially when it comes to kids. Dreams goals, things to look forward to is what helps keep them moving, even if it's just looking forward to seeing us at PAL every day. So, my words of wisdom is if you want something go out and get it. Don't be afraid, because failure isn't really failure unless if you let it stop you from getting what you really want.

Paul Meunier 

If you would like to share your passion for youth work, we'd love to spotlight you as a guest. If you have feedback about the show, please let us know. Just visit training.yipa.org That's training.yipa.org and click on the podcast tab. This podcast is made possible in part due to a generous contribution from M Health Fairview. I'm your host Paul Meunier. Thanks for listening to The Passionate Youth Worker.