Esha Mohammed Abdallah 

I felt, especially for young women and girls like myself, where in these spaces we rarely are seen, taking up spaces or debating or having conversations that actually matter. And I wanted to change that particular narrative. And then for me, so I had to involve myself because if we do not see people like myself in such spaces, then no one is going to dream that that can actually happen, right?

Paul Meunier 

Hello, I'm Paul Meunier, the executive director of the Youth Intervention Programs Association, and I'm a youth worker at heart. How lucky am I? I have the privilege to meet youth workers from around the globe and learn their stories and share them with the entire world. I'm glad you're listening because together we'll learn how their life experiences shape their youth work. As you listen, I encourage you to consider how your experiences shape what you have to offer young people. Welcome to this edition of The Passionate Youth Worker. Hi, everybody. Our guest for this episode is Esha Mohammed Abdallah from Mombasa, Kenya. As a child plagued by extreme self-doubt, she found comfort and guidance in her mother's unwavering belief in her potential. Because of that support, Esha gradually emerged from her shadows of self-doubt. Now, she is channeling her personal triumph into a mission to empower girls worldwide as a board member for Plan International and as the director of Her Narrative. Esha is helping to build up young girls, instilling in them the self-confidence and determination she once lacked. Esha, thanks for being a guest on The Passionate Youth Worker podcast.

Esha Mohammed Abdallah 

Thank you so much, Paul. And it's a pleasure to be here.

Paul Meunier 

Well, you're welcome. And you know, your mother sounds like a remarkable person.

Esha Mohammed Abdallah 

Yeah.

Paul Meunier 

Will you please just talk a little bit about her so the audience and our listening members can hear and learn more about her?

Esha Mohammed Abdallah 

My mother is first charming, and very thoughtful. Growing up, I had a bit of selfish, not even a bit, I have so much self-esteem issues. Because of one, I grew up very chubby and also very dark-skinned. And it slowly made me not feel as if that I'm beautiful enough, or I can't stand up for myself. So, she'd usually remind me of my worth and who I am, and what I'm capable of. And it did wonders for me, Paul. And to date, I still go to my mother when I am low, and she has a way to make me feel better. And I think I'm living some of her dreams because she never finished school for her. So, I am doing extra to ensure that I'm able to at least become a better person because that is what she wants.

Paul Meunier 

She does sound like that one person we all need in our lives. Because sometimes we're just born with these insecurities and the support of somebody can really make a difference. Why do you think your mom had such a deep sense of belief in you? What did she see? Did she know you were capable of better things or is she just such a caring person that she just loved you regardless of any doubt you might have had.

Esha Mohammed Abdallah 

For me, I believe through her story or her journey when she was growing up, she did not receive that extra support as she's given to me. And I think as human beings we tend to give to others most of the time what maybe we didn't or were not able to get. Especially to the kids that we have or people that we care so much deeply with. So, what I learned from her journey is there are certain things that she was not able to get because she was a girl. Like schooling, she had to leave school for her brothers to go to school. Like even work, it took her awhile. She was to get married very early. It took her a lot of determination to tell her parents that she doesn't want to get married. So, those are the things that enable her to ensure that me personally, and my brothers and sisters, go to a better school, see learning in a different perspective, and even focus and push ourselves to become better people. So, I learned something. Sometimes lacking does not mean you push other people to also lack but ensure that other people don't live the way that you lived.

Paul Meunier 

It's so great that she saw what she missed and turned around and gave that directly to you. When your self-confidence was low as a child, how bad was it? Did you have trouble in school, did you have trouble playing with friends, how bad was your self-esteem?

Esha Mohammed Abdallah 

It was really bad. I remember when I used to go out, people would point fingers and say you're really chubby, you're dark-skinned, you're not as beautiful. And they didn't want to have that conversation with me. And I felt really alone. These are things that would put my mind into tests, and I would cry a lot. So, each day I asked my mother, why did she give birth to me, dark and chubby? Because at some point, people say, maybe I had got the contraceptives that increases someone else's body. So, they think that maybe I'm doing that. And it wasn't, because I was just in grade five, that is class five, this other side. But then my periods came really early and they came with a lot of weight and all that. So, it took a while for me to accept, but I believe because of the support and seeing that whenever I come to her crying, she will tell me no, don't worry, you're beautiful, and everything is going to work out for you. And it actually did because when I got to high school, my body started shaping itself up. And I started listening to what my mother told me like I'm beautiful and taking confidence in that. And it changed a whole lot in terms of myself and how I look at myself, and even my visions. Yeah.

Paul Meunier 

That is a wonderful story. And you're so full of confidence now and the work you're doing to try to instill that in other people is very admirable. Thank you for sharing a little bit about your mother. How about your father? Was he very supportive too or did he take a different approach?

Esha Mohammed Abdallah 

I think my father is a protective father. I grew up in a purely African community or African household and fathers tend to be very, I'd say protective because I don't have another word to have it, where they will take time to understand and take time to give you that opportunity. They give you an opportunity, but they look at it in an other eye. So, now growing up, that is what I saw because he was trying to protect me from such things that maybe might harm me. And I remember when I started volunteering, I did volunteer at Kenya Red Cross at the age of 18, very early. That is how my love for community work started and working with young people. So, at that particular moment when I used to go and volunteer, and I did during the COVID-19 era, so we used to go until late and my father will tell me no, no, you can't go, you have to stay here. And I was very passionate, very loving and wanted to go out, everyone was going to support the community. And here he is telling me if you go out, we'll have trouble in this house, you know? So, to me in that situation feeling that Oh, my father doesn't care ,doesn't see my journey as a person, my path and all that. But then looking at it backwards now, I'm like, my father actually loved me. He just didn't want me to be among the people, for example, that would die with COVID-19 at that particular time, you know? He loved me in a different way. They're not those people that will tell you, I love you. But their actions will actually prove that they loved you. So, now currently, he's very supportive. He asks me questions. He wants to know what I'm doing. He's asked for advice. And I think I am happy now because I understand him at that particular time, what he was doing. But then I used not to see that he's supporting me and all that. Yeah.

Paul Meunier 

You talked about your love for working with young people started when you were a volunteer at the Red Cross. Can you talk a little bit about why young people seemed like such a good fit for you?

Esha Mohammed Abdallah 

Because of the challenges that we go through as young people, it's really hard for you to penetrate in spaces. People look at you with an other eye like what can you even tell us, what do you even have to offer? Especially where I come from, where a young person cannot speak where elders are there at that particular moment. I remember even this year, we were reminded of where we came from, because now as I advise, then you couldn't advise such organizations, big organizations, what are you telling them? So, my passion came with that. There was a gap. And I felt, especially for young women and girls like myself, where in these spaces we rarely are seen taking up spaces or debating or having conversations that actually matter. And I wanted to change that particular narrative. And then for me, so I had to involve myself because if we do not see people like myself in such spaces then no one is going to dream that that can actually happen right? So, I started volunteering and then championing through my organization later on, after volunteering for a while and gathering experience now starting my own organization called Her Narrative, and sharing experiences of girls and young women they go through. We go through gender-based violence, there is harassment in such spaces. And when someone see Esha in that particular position now that I sit on the board the first thought that they think is no she doesn't even have the capacity. Probably they slept with someone or they went with someone, there's always that connotation or narrative when it comes to young people in spaces that has never gotten away, you know? And mine was to change that, to ensure that when we're in spaces, we're actually articulating issues and people are now like, oh, Esha is there. Okay. I know the questions are going to come, what am I going to say, you know? Young people are here, and we need to hear the voices of the young people. What do they have to say? Kenya, currently, 70% of the population is made up of young people. But we are never there, right? Yeah.

Paul Meunier 

Forgive me for asking, because I'm just unaware, but in Mombasa and Kenya in general, is there a lot of support for young people or are there a lot of young people going without a caring relationship with a trusting adult?

Esha Mohammed Abdallah 

So, the support is there, but there's a lot that has to be done with the support. Yeah, where I'm saying that, like, for example, in Mombasa, we are still working to have a youth policy in place, you know? And these are very, very important frameworks for young people if you're looking at them participating, or even sharing their voices. If there is no policy framework, then there is no way we're going to hold anyone accountable. See? So, the government is trying, but I think they need to do better in terms of ensuring that the voices of young people are heard. We have rates, for example, in Mombasa again, we are seeing the unemployment rates are actually higher. Even in Kenya, there are videos circulating with young people from Kenya, during this year when there was what is called massive recruitment for KDF, that is Kenya Defense Forces. And young people came in huge numbers, huge numbers, and they just wanted a very few number of people. So, the unemployment rate is high, and little is done. The funding is there, but it's loans. Young people look at the loan and say, really, how will I even be able to sustain that particular loan, you see?  So for me, I think there is a lot that the government can do to ensure that the voices of young people are heard and also to ensure that young people are not just staying at home, and increasing a number of vices, but they are taken in and absorbed in various opportunities so that they can utilize this energy that we have at this particular level.

Paul Meunier 

What kind of impact does that have on the young people there? Are they feeling a sense of hopelessness, a sense of doubt or is there a basic sense of optimism for the future? What would you say?

Esha Mohammed Abdallah 

I think as of now it's a sense of doubt. Because we are from the elections currently, that was last year. And the candidates or the politicians shared a number of their manifestos saying that they put young people at the center and all that and all that. But one year down the line, we are not seeing a number of things coming out. Probably they're doing that in their words, you know, you never know. Because they say, we are still handling at this level, things are going to come out a bit later on. But then young people are desperate, are desperate to see what life has in store for them. Are desperate to get opportunities, they're desperate to be employed somewhere because you know, when you finish in university and I finished my university at the age of 22, and then you know, here, when you have gone to the university there is that mindset that you have to go get employed immediately. So, now when you were three years, it took me a while before I'm employed. I just got employed this year. So, I finished my university in 2019. My first employment occurred this year. The other ones are just volunteering opportunities. So, imagine for a young person who everyone thought that when they finish their degree, they immediately get employment, and then they don't get employment, see? So, there's a lot that comes with that, especially with expectations that we have from our parents and communities. So, now they end up doing other things, and then leading to a lot, either increased gang violence, increased use of drug abuse within the society, people looking very desperate because they have nothing else to do, increased suicidal cases. This year, we saw a young man who is in the university actually die by suicide, they burn themselves alive just to bring out that statement to the government saying that no, no, no, no these things where we are currently is not good for our country. So, if a young man, a young man who is in the university can burn themselves alive, just to prove a point, then it means there is a lot that has to be done. Yeah.

Paul Meunier 

It sure sounds like it. It's hard to believe but we need to take a short break already. But when we come back, I want to ask you some more specific questions about your work with young people. So, we'll be right back.

Jade Schleif 

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Paul Meunier 

Esha, right before the break, I was talking about asking you some questions specifically to your work with young people. I'm wondering, when you meet a young person who's down on their confidence, feeling like there isn't a lot of hope for the future, what do you do to try to inspire those people to have the resilience and the belief in themselves that you had to learn how to overcome? How do you go about helping young people?

Esha Mohammed Abdallah 

One is sharing my story, I love storytelling.

Paul Meunier 

Oh, you're good at it!

Esha Mohammed Abdallah 

I talk a lot. So, for me is to share stories. And we rarely hear people who have been in that position talk a lot about their stories. So, I tell them away. And I did that this year, again, in one activity that we had. And people, some people actually cried because of the things that I go through before I get these opportunities or I start advocating or until where I am. And then after that I try to share referrals or opportunities that they could apply, or places that they could go to, or organizations that work around young people to support them. Because sometimes young people lack information, they don't know who to go to, they don't know where to get to, they don't know even how to know they get. So, when they get such spaces, and I was that young person that I didn't know, where do I go to? Who do I have that conversation with that can support me? So, I try to show them that there are these spaces. It's not that we don't have opportunities, it's because that the information about these opportunities we don't have. So, then how do we ensure that you have that information so that you can pick and choose and say this is better for me than this, you know? So, those are the two things that I do because I don't have a background on issue psychology. So, I don't do a lot of counseling. But I do referrals in case one needs that. Yeah.

Paul Meunier 

Yeah, and all that stuff is universal. No matter where young people are growing up, they all need that kind of information and that kind of support and infrastructure around them, to help them have a positive youth development. And I know that you have had a lot of people in your life that have helped you. What do you think is the biggest compliment somebody's ever given you?

Esha Mohammed Abdallah 

Thank you for that, I think I've had a number. I'm still trying to figure it out to get a good way for feedback myself, because it takes me a while to reflect. But for me is boldness. People have told me I convince them that I'm bold, able to speak out, I'm able to share my perspective and my thoughts around issues. So, I'll say that for today.

Paul Meunier 

Your boldness is something that is so needed, and we need boldness in all of youth workers to be able to be a strong advocate and a voice for change for young people. Why, in particular, is boldness something you're so proud of? Is it because you had such a lack of boldness when you were younger? Does that 180-degree view of that change that and make you feel so good about that?

Esha Mohammed Abdallah 

So, that is one and then two why it's very important because I have seen what boldness does when change is needed. When there is something that is not going well, we need that someone that will ask questions, critically analyze and tell people like no hold on. We need ABCD done, there is one or two that is not happening. And you find that most people don't have that. They have great ideas. They have great recommendations or things that ran in their mind. But they don't want to share them because they lack that confidence to do it. And you never know what you're holding in your heart can do for other people, what it can change to other people. So, for me, I'd say I'd rather not keep quiet. If I share it, it may not come out as intended or maybe it might not be the greatest idea. But trust me, whatever is shared I'd say would add one and one become two.

Paul Meunier 

That is incredible, that you have such a sense of self-confidence now that you can be bold and courageous and say what you need to say. What a transformation. We're kind of getting to know you now but I got a little tougher question for you. Are you ready?

Esha Mohammed Abdallah 

Yes.

Paul Meunier 

What is one thing people would be surprised to learn about you?

Esha Mohammed Abdallah 

Surprised? Okay. Sometimes I, with all the boldness with all the boldness, I take time sometimes to reflect on what on the actions and what I think. And sometimes when I sit alone, I tend to visualize and ask myself what I did, was it actually right? Was it actually correct? In asking myself that particular questions because sometimes with the boldness and the courage this it shadows and you feel like, oh, I can say anything can be anything can do anything. But you forget yourself in the end. So, I question myself a lot with the things that I do, and even how I do them. And sometimes it reduces my boldness to a certain level because of questioning myself. So, not always, but sometimes I do that, yeah.

Paul Meunier 

Here's what's cool about that, at least from my perspective, so you've learned to cast away your self-doubt, but you haven't stopped questioning if what you're doing is right or not. And I think that's a perfect way to describe that self-reflection process is that it's so important we continue asking ourselves those hard questions. Because that is how we get better in our work with young people. And that's how we grow as human beings. So, you didn't shed those questions about am I doing right, is this the best thing to do, did I say the right thing? You've learned to manage that. So, your self-doubt went from being unmanageable to manageable, and now it's got so strong that you can just be courageous with your ideas and your views of things.

Esha Mohammed Abdallah 

And I love it, I love it because then that enables people to see the real me as a person. And I have seen that how it cultivates to meaningful relationships that I make with people. People are very comfortable working with me, because they know they'll get their work done. Someone was telling me yesterday that everyone feels that they are not working with other people. But it's quite different with me because I have a different attitude with that person. And we work really well. Yeah.

Paul Meunier 

That's incredible. And I think that our ability to learn to be self-reflective and work with other people is required. And just the opposite side of that coin is somebody with too much bravado, too much self-confidence, right? And don't ever ask themselves am I doing the right thing, am I doing the wrong thing, is also there too, right? Do you know people like that, who don't ever have any self-doubt and it just leads them to problems and maybe relationship issues, things like that?

Esha Mohammed Abdallah 

Yeah, I have seen it. Sometimes I hear people speaking like keep quiet, keep quiet. Not because the last speaker says but then at that particular point, you don't have to share your opinion, right. And it puts them in a position where they do not relate well with other people. So, I learned that, especially in the diplomacy space, or the space that I want to be in, you have to know when to speak, how to speak, to who you're speaking it to so that it becomes well clear and well delivered. So, with that in mind, I have to be very cautious. Yes, boldness, but at what time, you know. And it's bad for for people that always just take spaces, especially advocacy spaces, or spaces with government people who just stand up and start shouting oh you're not doing this, you're not doing that, you're not adding this because of that particular one, they don't even listen, they look at you and just move away, you see? So, I had to change it. So, it's true, people with that sense to not be listened to and even every time that that person comes in, they actually are not given time to speak. They're like no, don't give her the time, don't give her the chance to speak. So ,you end up not sharing your views or opinions. Yeah.

Paul Meunier 

Yeah. You've got wonderful insight into all of this. What do you think the most crucial trait or personality characteristics somebody has to have in order to be good in advocating and supporting young people?

Esha Mohammed Abdallah 

For me, I think it's humane. I think we are forgetting to be human in all this process. Yeah. We are forgetting we're putting ourselves, we are doing all this work but just because you want to there is a lot of people looking at impact. What is the impact of all this? What is the outcome, those big words. But we're forgetting those little gestures that people want sometimes, like kindness, like being there for them.Yes, you might want to advocate for a particular issue. But then you have also to go down there and have conversation with people you know. So, we are lacking that with young people and that is how we are losing them in the process. we are not giving them a listening ear. We are not asking them how they are feeling what they want. We are forgetting the human nature of people. And that is why now they are rebelling, they're very rebellious and they're very, what is it called,  they're very abrupt in their decisions and critically ask you questions, and you're like, Okay, we will say the same person is very disrespectful. But it's not that it's like a whole process that we've been able to do that has accumulated to that particular person being that person. So, for me, I think we should reflect and look at ourselves, and add the human nature of us in whatever that we're doing, especially working with young people.

Paul Meunier 

What a wonderful answer. And I think it really does boil down to our compassion and our care and our love for other people just as strictly because we're all part of the human race. That we have so much in common with each other. And to just let people know that they're cared for and loved, that can change somebody's life profoundly, just that alone. Esha, it's been absolutely wonderful to have you on the podcast and to learn your story of overcoming self-doubt to now be confident, but not ignoring the idea that you still have to be self-reflective and ask yourself questions. You truly are an inspiration for resiliency and an inspiration of grit, and determination. And that's what we want in our young people. We want young people to go through the transformation you went through so they can grow up and find their place in the world and feel comfortable and competent in how they fit into our communities. So, thank you for everything you do. And please keep up the great work.

Esha Mohammed Abdallah 

Thank you very much. I really appreciate it.

Paul Meunier 

Esha you know, because we've talked about it, before we go what words of wisdom or inspiration would you like to leave with our listeners?

Esha Mohammed Abdallah 

I think mine will go to young people themselves. And I will say as you continue to evolve and grow don't forget that little Esha, don't forget yourself in the process. Remember who you are and where you come from because it puts you in check. Thank you.

Paul Meunier 

If you would like to share your passion for youth work, we'd love to spotlight you as a guest. If you have feedback about the show, please let us know. Just visit training.yipa.org, that's training.yipa.org and click on the podcast tab. This podcast is made possible in part due to a generous contribution from M Health Fairview. I'm your host, Paul Meunier. Thanks for listening to The Passionate Youth Worker.