Katie Shatusky 

Looking back, yeah, I was really struggling with mental health and I didn't know it. But I'm really grateful to say like I'm in a much better place with my mental health and it's taken a long time for me to get to that place. And sadly, you know, mental health doesn't have an easy button and it takes a lot of work and effort on the person who is struggling with their mental illness, to get the help that they need and to really figure out what works best for them.

Paul Meunier 

Hello, I'm Paul Meunier, the executive director of the Youth Intervention Programs Association, and I'm a youth worker at heart. How lucky am I, I have the privilege to meet youth workers from around the globe and learn their stories and share them with the entire world. I'm glad you're listening because together we'll learn how their life experiences shape their youth work. As you listen, I encourage you to consider how your experiences shape what you have to offer young people. Welcome to this edition of The Passionate Youth Worker.

Paul Meunier 

Hi, everybody. Today we have the honor of having Katie Shatusky from Minnesota here in the United States as our guest. She's a remarkable individual whose life took a profound turn with the passing of her grandfather. This event wasn't just a moment of loss, it became the catalyst for a remarkable journey of personal and professional transformation. In our conversation, we'll explore how Katie's grief became a driving force for change. It led her to define her purpose and embark on a mission to promote mental wellness. As the founder and executive director of Thumbs Up, a nonprofit organization, Katie has dedicated herself to creating a positive impact on mental health. Together, we'll learn Katie's story, from personal sorrow to the heights of meaningful advocacy. Let's discover how her journey turned a life event into a powerful force for positive change. Get ready for an inspiring dialogue that highlights the resilience of the human spirit, and the incredible potential for growth even in the face of life's most challenging moments. Katie, welcome to the podcast.

Katie Shatusky 

Thank you so much for having me, Paul. That was all very nicely said. Thank you.

Paul Meunier 

Oh, well, you're very welcome. And it’s well deserving. Katie, like so many of our listeners, we never thought we would be a youth worker someday. When you were growing up, did you ever have this idea that someday you would be a youth worker?

Katie Shatusky 

Honestly, no. I mean, I grew up in a setting where actually my mom owned a daycare center. So, she started in her house. And then she actually opened up a daycare center. So, I was always around children. And I always had a love for children. I loved babysitting, and you know, all of that kind of stuff. But I never really thought that would turn into my career path.

Paul Meunier 

Yeah. What did you hope to do, Katie? What were you what were your thoughts?

Katie Shatusky 

It's really funny, because I'm very artistic, very creative. So, I think, you know, I've, at one time wanted to be an art teacher. There was another time I wanted to be a veterinarian, because I love animals. So, it's just kind of funny how that all works out. And I'll never forget and in college, you kind of go and you take one of those aptitude tests and for me, it came back as social worker. And I remember thinking, what, like no way. Like, I think part of it was motivated maybe by wanting to earn a living in a different way. And so, it's just kind of funny, though, how now, full circle. Here I am.

Paul Meunier 

Seems like destiny was drawing you in to do this type of work and supporting other people. And so, when did you shift from maybe wanting to have more of a business type career into more of human services supporting young people career?

Katie Shatusky 

Well, it's been quite a journey, I think through several different careers that I've been in. I've just not felt fulfilled. And so, I've really struggled. You know, I loved all the different jobs that I had. And I loved working with the people that I worked with, but I just constantly felt like, I don't feel like I'm making a difference. So, through some of my own therapy, and through some of kind of my own, like journey, I really tried to figure out like, what am I being called to do? And so, I made quite a shift back in 2013, leaving a corporate job and I started doing some photography. And then I actually went back to the workforce again for a few years and again realized, like, what am I doing like, this is not, this is not fulfilling to me. So, Thumbs Up was really started voluntarily. I mean, we were doing all this volunteer, but we got to a point where it was like, okay, we need to, we need to try to go for this and really try to get to that next level with the organization. And so, it was decided through our board of directors that we wanted to hire a position, executive director position so that person could really dedicate the time and efforts in the day-to-day things that were going on and give them a little bit more focus than what we had been. So, that was really kind of the shift that the catalyst. So, I stepped down from my position as the board chairperson, and took on the executive director position in 2021.

Paul Meunier 

And I know, like you and so many of our listeners, you had a pretty traumatic experience happen in your life, and it fundamentally changed who you are. You shared with me that your grandfather committed suicide. Can you talk about that a little bit, and help our listeners understand how that situation changed you.

Katie Shatusky 

So, yeah, I sadly lost my very sweet and very smiley grandfather in 2010. From the outside looking in, you really wouldn't have known that he was somebody that struggled. But now that I'm older, and I'm an adult, I know that he did struggle his entire life. It really impacted me for a number of different reasons. I had lost a friend of mine in high school. I also lost a second cousin on that same side of the family to suicide. And I knew that my grandfather had actually lost a brother to suicide as well. So, you know, we live in a small, smaller town, Elk River, it's very community-focused. And I think the thing for me, that was really the lightbulb moment was after my grandfather died, my grandmother wanted to, you know, call all of our relatives to let them know that he had passed away. And her parting comment to me was to tell them that he had had a heart attack. And I'll never forget that moment because it was like, wait a second here, like, I'm not gonna lie about it, first of all. And second of all, I think for me, it was like, our family has lost now three people that we're aware of, and we need to start talking about this because who else is struggling? And I was among one of those that struggled. I have suffered from depression a good portion of my life. I'd say about my adolescence is really when you know, I, looking back, can really go yeah, I was really struggling with mental health, and I didn't know it. I've also, you know, struggled with some anxiety. But I'm really grateful to say like, I'm in a much better place with my mental health, and it's taken a long time for me to get to that place. And sadly, you know, mental health doesn't have an easy button. And it takes a lot of work and effort on the person who is struggling with their mental illness to get the help that they need, and to really figure out what works best for them. So, even for me, it's like, it's getting exercise, and it's eating healthy, and it's taking my medication every day, and I go to therapy when I need to. So, you know, losing my grandfather really was the catalyst which started Thumbs Up, which was only supposed to be a one-time thing, by the way. It's kind of funny, looking back over the past 10 years that wow, like, all of the things that we've done, and the community support that we have is so amazing. And it's really special to see kind of what's come from, you know, a very dark, and a very sad time for our family, what good has come from it. And I've definitely found a lot of healing in the event itself. I just every year, we have the event, it's like, yeah, this is why we do what we do, and just coming around to support other families that have lost somebody and to support other people who might be struggling. It's really special. And I just I feel really honored that I get to do the work that I do. I wish I had my grandfather back. I wouldn't trade that for the world. But I do think that, you know, what we were able to create with Thumbs Up is really helping a lot of people. So, that makes me feel good.

Paul Meunier 

Yeah, well, thank you for sharing all that and really being vulnerable and letting people know your story in a real personal sort of way. I'm thinking back to when you learned about your grandfather's death, and your grandmother suggested to say it was a heart attack, how did that go? How did your conversation go with her when you said, I really can't do that, we have to be honest about this. Was she accepting of that?

Katie Shatusky 

I don't think initially but she didn't have a choice. So, I just kind of said to her, you know, I'm happy to make all these phone calls but I won't lie about it. So, if somebody asks, I'm going to tell them the truth. And honestly, none of them were surprised. I think everybody, everybody in the family who knew that he struggled and just even looking back from generations like him, you know, losing it would have been, I guess, would have been my great uncle. But my grandfather's brother, it's like he had passed away and then one of his nephews and so I think people were like, oh, yeah, you know. So, I don't know. It was, it was a hard moment. But I'm so glad that I kind of put my foot down and said no, we're gonna tell people the truth and it's really start you know, it's time that we really start talking about this. And I know from like the faith side of things it was hard because I think my family is very Catholic, which nothing against like Catholicism or anything like that. But I think there's been this misnomer of if you die by suicide, you don't go to heaven. And so, I know that was really hard for a lot of our family members. But I was very impressed by the priest at his funeral service and him addressing it and just talking about the man that my grandfather was and that there's no possible way that's where he is, you know, so it just, it definitely I feel like it was it was the right move to make. And I'm glad that we I'm glad we didn't lie about it. I'm glad that we were honest about it. And it was a tough day, though.

Paul Meunier 

I can only imagine how tough it was. And I'm curious about the response you got from people that you talked to. Were they shocked that it was suicide? And how difficult was it to share that news with other people?

Katie Shatusky 

Yeah, I think there were definitely some people who were surprised because like, even I think about one of my grandfather's really good friends, Joe Schmidt. He's a Channel Five sports anchor and he was very good friends with my grandfather. And so, when he found out he was like, I had no idea and I've known your grandfather for years. Like he actually pulled me aside at my grandfather's funeral and was like, I had no clue. And I'm, you know, when anybody dies by suicide, you just instantly feel guilty, like you wish there was something you could have done if you had only known. And I remember him saying to me, like, I wish I would have known so I could have helped him or I would have helped him or, you know, so I think there were definitely some people who were surprised because he didn't share that. And he was so private about it. And then I think there was other family members that were like, oh, it finally happened. Because he had attempted in the past. I think it was kind of a 50-50 thing. And then for a lot of like, the grandkids, I don't think they knew because our parents were, you know, trying to protect us, which is, you know, I can't blame them for that. So, yeah, it came as quite a surprise for some and for others, probably not as much.

Paul Meunier 

We've had this wonderful training at YIPA about how to cope with suicide. And the data really shows that the risk of suicide after suicide is really high by people around them. And I'm wondering, with your own struggles with depression and anxiety, what was that moment like for you? Did you feel like your well-being was really at risk after this?

Katie Shatusky 

Yeah, I definitely do. I think, again, the grief is just so heavy and trying to access the right help is so important, especially for somebody who already knew that they had depression and anxiety. So, I definitely do feel like it did hinder my well-being. I had a child about two years after my grandfather passed. And I struggled with postpartum depression too. So, I know that I would say for a good three or four years, it was a struggle. And it took a lot of grit, I guess, for lack of better words, to go get the help that I needed. But again, I think the stigma is there of, you know, for me, personally, it was like, I didn't want to be labeled. I didn't want to take medication. Like, you know, all of the things that make you feel like you're weaker or less than. It's so hard to get over that and realize, like asking for help, and going and actually getting help is so brave. And so, I definitely struggled afterwards. And I know several other you know, my family members struggled. And I've had several cousins reach out to me for support over the past 10 years, even that have struggled with it. And yeah, there's a lot of families that sadly lose more than one person. And so, it's really, really, really important that afterwards you surround yourself with people and you know, get into your doctor or go to a therapist. You might need to get on medication. There's great support groups out there. We have one at Thumbs Up called the Survivors of Suicide Support Group, and it's specific for people that have lost somebody to suicide. And I know that's been really helpful for people in their journey because the initial shock and the initial grief is really hard.

Paul Meunier 

Katie, hard to believe but we have to take a short break already. But I've got a couple more questions about this when we come back. And we'll be right back.

Jade Schleif 

No matter how you support our young people, The Professional Youth Worker, powered by YIPA, has your training and learning needs covered. Visit training.yipa.org, that's training.yipa.org to see for yourself and then join the 1000s of youth workers around the globe who learn from our easy to access exceptional trainings. From our blogs to our podcast, The Professional Youth Worker is your go-to resource for tools to help you keep going, keep learning, and keep growing. Members enjoy free, unlimited access to Live Online and On-Demand trainings and a preferred discount pricing for our one-of-a kind certificate course. Annual memberships are ridiculously affordable for individuals and organizations. Visit training.yipa.org. today to learn more. That's training.yipa.org.

Paul Meunier 

Katie, right before the break, you were sharing about the importance of taking care of yourself, especially after a suicide. And you have taken great steps to take care of yourself by starting this Thumbs Up organization that supports mental wellness in your community. And I know your community has really bought into it, and you have a lot of support. How important has Thumbs Up been to your journey of recovery and mental health?

Katie Shatusky 

I think it's incredibly important. I think, you know, for a few years after my grandfather passed, it was really trying to figure out, like, what do I do now? You know, what do I do next? So, I think those first couple years were really rough. I had my daughter in 2012, my grandfather died in 2010. I had a baby in 2012, '13, and '14 were really challenging for me. And so, I really started running for my mental health. That was really helping me kind of get that runner's high, but I still just wasn't feeling better. So, going to a doctor or getting on some medication. But I think where I was able to turn kind of my pain into purpose is really where I felt a shift. And it was like, okay, I can't control the fact that my grandfather died and it sucks, like, there's no other good way to say it. But I can try to do something more to help somebody else. And so, I really didn't know exactly what that was or what that looked like. But my husband actually gave me a book called Silent Impact by Joe Schmidt, the guy that I was talking about earlier. And it's all these different stories through using your passion in your persistence to just do good things for other people, and some really great stories in there. And so, that book was really the catalyst for me to be like, okay, I can do something else. So, I was out for a run and I had like the aha moment of, oh, I should start like a 5k. I had a lot of event planning background and sponsorship sales and so it seemed pretty natural, like, that'd be a great way to bring the community together to, you know, have that support there for other families that have lost a loved one to suicide, because sadly, I knew quite a few families in the area that had also lost somebody. And so, we just started planning it in June of '14. And that October, we had our first event which again, was only supposed to really be like a one-time thing. And we had over 500 people show up. And I know without a doubt, that Thumbs Up in this journey has helped me tremendously. It's helped me work through the grief and the sadness and the what ifs and the I wish I could have and you know, all the things that you wish you could have done. And it's like, at least I know that we're helping other people. So that, to me, is so fulfilling. And it's been quite a blessing how our community has supported it and really just taken it kind of to the next level.

Paul Meunier 

Our life experiences really influence how we work with young people and the work that we do with people around us in general. And so, I've been thinking lately that it's really our life experiences that define our youth work. And I'm wondering, Katie, you've been exploring your journey pretty deeply for a good part of your life. What has life taught you so far?

Katie Shatusky 

A lot.

Paul Meunier 

Yes, I'm sure that's a that's a long list. Can you break it down to maybe like one or two important themes or lessons you've learned so far?

Katie Shatusky 

Yeah, I think as it relates to the youth side of things, I think I was always one of those kids that was really creative. I was different. I was unique. I wasn't like your average kid. I didn't belong in like the one popular friend group. I had lots of friends in different pockets. And I think our after-school program really encompasses what I probably needed as a youth is a place to belong, a place where I could hang out with, you know, others who are like me, it's we have a very focused like an art room. So, it's very art focused. And for kids who are not playing sports or in an extracurricular like giving them the opportunity, especially those kids that are more creative or musically inclined, like a place for them to belong too. So, I would say if I learned anything through this journey, I feel like this space was kind of created for me in my younger years, and to really just follow your path, you know, like, I don't know, I feel really led to do certain things. And I think that's really taught me a lot when I kind of dive into those things, even when they seem really hard or uncomfortable. It's been quite a journey.

Paul Meunier 

Yeah, well, you've taken the lesson of what life has taught you and turned it into a whole program that's helping an entire community. I think that's a pretty impactful thing. And I know you have a sweet spot in your heart for middle school aged young people. And I do too, I spent 17 years leading a program with middle school aged young people in a setting for EBD program. And I share that, but what is it for you in particular, that middle school aged young people really kind of tickles your fancy, so to speak?

Katie Shatusky 

Yeah, I love middle schoolers. And I feel like they're just the forgotten bunch. What I noticed in the community, and even as I go back 20 plus years when I was their age, you know, there's just not a whole lot of things for them to do. And so, it was like, I see kids go into the coffee shops, you know, the Caribous and the Dunn Brothers and the Starbucks. And they don't really want them there because they're not spending money. And they're, you know, they're teenagers so they're silly and goofy, and they make noise and all the things. So, what I also love, though, is that they're still at an age where they'll listen, like they are very impressionable and they haven't made all of their decisions up here. So, just to be able to connect with them at a different level. I love it. I think they're such a cool group of kids. We have, honest to God, we have some of the coolest kids that come here. And it just it thrills me that I get to be part of that. And our volunteers, a lot of our volunteers are retired teachers, retired paras, you know, they've worked in, you know, they've worked with adolescents and youth too. And to see them making connections with us and with the volunteers is super special. And, yeah, I don't know, I just I love middle schoolers, and I just, I want them to have a place to belong. I want them to come here and know they're not going to get kicked out because they're being too loud. Or, you know, they're just, they're a great, great bunch of kids.

Paul Meunier 

I share that with you. And, you know, when we talk about supporting young people and thinking about their needs, we often rely on our life experiences and what that meant to us. So, your middle school age years, were they that impactful on you too? I mean, do you think like you carry some of those lessons and things that you learned and were wondering about in those years? Are they still prevalent today? Because I find, like, middle school is such a transformative thing that it really kick-starts the whole idea of life is a journey, life is an adventure because they change so much when they enter middle school age they're these young little kids and when they grow up and ready to start high school, they think they're like 60 years old or something. So, what experiences do you learn from middle school aged young people? What do they teach you and what have you learned from them?

Katie Shatusky 

Yeah, I'm thinking back to my middle school. I don't, I would say I didn't love middle school. I had a bully in middle school. So, the cool thing, though, is I had somebody stand up for me, and I actually, not that long ago actually just reached out to her and said, I just want to say thank you for what you did so many years ago, because it's a scary place to be. It's like, I actually have a fifth grader right now. She's going into middle school next year. And I'm just like, ah, like, it's gonna be okay. But yeah, I'm trying to think of kind of what they, what I learned through my own middle school is definitely like, you just have to keep going and find your group of people. And something that I've told my own kids is you don't have to have a big group of friends, you only have to have one or two friends that are kind and will treat you with respect and that you can rely on and count on. You don't have to have 20 friends, you don't have to be in the popular quote unquote, popular group. You know, finding meaningful friendships, and people who are kind to you and will have your back so to speak. That's all you need as an adult, as a youth, you know, you only need a couple of really good friends. I would say that's what I took from all that.

Paul Meunier 

Yeah. And middle school aged kids teach us so much. That period of time is so transformative, and it's indicative of your life and what a transformation it's taken. I think what all youth workers go through if you're a lifelong learner, you are always on a journey. And you never really get done growing until you take your last breath, right. And that's when I think people first start to notice that's what life is all about during those middle school years. If you were to summarize your youth work so far and your journey into supporting your community through Thumbs Up what would you say you really would hope to do in the next year or two, to make an impact with people?

Katie Shatusky 

Well, interestingly enough, we've had quite a few people approach us and ask like, how can we get this after school program for teens, for middle school, and high school students, how can we do this in our community? And so, our board of directors actually just recently had a retreat and we're talking about what it would look like to create some sort of chapters program so that other people and other communities can take this same model and bring it into their community. So, that's actually something we're working on this year. And we kind of have a satellite location starting February 4, in Rogers, Minnesota. And we're going to kind of like, look like, what does this look like, and can we do it? And just kind of how can we create it? And what would that look like? So, my hope in the next year is really that we get that program started on the side, and that other people can take this and bring it back to their community. And it's been interesting to kind of figure out like, okay, is this what we want to do? And it's gonna get bigger, and it's gonna, you know, it's gonna be scary at times, and, but our mission statement is bringing awareness to mental health and providing support and resources to all. And so, I think as we keep moving forward and into the future, it's really how can we make an impact. And it's one kid at a time, it's one person at a time, it's not necessarily, you know, the masses of people. I mean, we, even in our program here we have anywhere from one student to 20 students, and I will tell you, the days that there's one student, the way that we get to know that student is just a different, deeper level. And so, you know, it's not all about how many kids are here. It's like, who are we reaching? And did we impact that child or that person when they were here. So, that'll be exciting to see kind of how that unfolds over the next year.

Paul Meunier 

Katie, it's been wonderful meeting with you. I'm so glad that you have decided to be a guest on The Passionate Youth Worker podcast. And it's amazing how you've taken your life experiences and turned them into something very powerful for your entire community. I, for one, am really grateful that you are doing the work that you're doing because I know how important it is to young people. And I think our listeners would agree you are an inspiration of knowing that mental health concerns don't have to define us. We can take them and use them somehow to make the world a better place. And I'm so grateful that you were brave enough at that moment to stand up and really call suicide what it is so we can reduce the stigma and help other people come forward so they don't have to face that same outcome. So, thank you for what you're doing. And thank you for being a guest on the podcast.

Katie Shatusky 

Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it.

Paul Meunier 

You're welcome. Katie, before we go, I'd like to give you the last word. So, what words of wisdom or inspiration would you like to leave with our listeners?

Katie Shatusky 

Yeah, I really had to think about this one for a while, just so you know. I think it's really just about trusting your gut, you know. If you're feeling led to do something, go for it. And you know, you're gonna get knocked down along the way, you're gonna have to get back up again. There's no straight line to success, you know, it's going to be messy. But your failures actually lead you to success. So, if you don't try, you'll never know. You've got to fail forward, I guess is what I'm saying. But getting comfortable with the uncomfortable and just fighting for your dreams. You have to try to fight for your dreams. It's not an easy path to take. And I think always trying to do the right thing, like you're gonna mess up along the way. Everybody does. Everybody makes mistakes but owning those mistakes and really apologizing if you need to and humble yourself in that way, then it's like, okay, I really messed up. And I need to say I'm sorry for this. But lastly, for me, it's being compassionate and empathetic to others. I think sometimes being a good listener is just the most helpful thing that you can do for somebody who's struggling. So, yeah, I would say those would be my words of wisdom.

Paul Meunier 

If you would like to share your passion for youth work, we'd love to spotlight you as a guest. If you have feedback about the show, please let us know. Just visit training.yipa.org, that's training.yipa.org and click on the podcast tab. This podcast is made possible in part due to a generous contribution from M Health Fairview. I'm your host, Paul Meunier. Thanks for listening to The Passionate Youth Worker.