Charlotte Gordon 

I think I knew once I started doing youth work, it was my vibe totally. When I realized you could actually get paid and it was like a job, I just couldn't believe it. This is like so fun. It's exactly what I want to be doing. Lots of people are high energy in youth work. You have that nice relationships with other people who are like you. Yeah, it's a really non-judgmental space, which was the opposite of how I'd been brought up, really. No shame, no judgment, just embracing everybody for who they are.

Paul Meunier 

Hello, I'm Paul Meunier, the executive director of the Youth Intervention Programs Association. And I'm a youth worker at heart. How lucky am I? I have the privilege to meet youth workers from around the globe and learn their stories and share them with the entire world. I'm glad you're listening because together we'll learn how their life experiences shape their youth work. As you listen, I encourage you to consider how your experiences shape what you have to offer young people. Welcome to this edition of The Passionate Youth Worker.  Hi, everybody, get ready for an incredible episode because today, we have a remarkable guest joining us from England in the United Kingdom. Charlotte Gordon is not just a youth worker, she's a powerhouse of enthusiasm, bringing an unparalleled level of energy and fun into her work with young people. Her journey is one that will leave you inspired and uplifted. Early in her life, Charlotte faced challenges that went unnoticed by way too many people. Unrecognized ADHD led her down a path of self-harm. But what's truly extraordinary is how she's harnessed the unique benefits of ADHD to become a recognized leader in England with extensive qualifications and known for her highly skilled trainings. Charlotte's story is one of resilience, determination, and a deep commitment to making a positive impact. As a single mother, she decided to create her own path and founded KIPP Education, an organization dedicated to providing valuable support and education to our young people. We're gonna dive into Charlotte's remarkable journey. From her personal struggles to her triumphs in youth work, we'll discover how her incredible energy and gift for bringing fun into her work have made her a beacon of inspiration, not only for the youth she serves, but for the field of youth work as a whole. Her story is a testament to the incredible potential within us all to create positive change and to make a difference. And to be sure, I'm eager for you to meet her. Charlotte, thanks for being a guest on The Passionate Youth Worker podcast.

Charlotte Gordon 

Oh, thank you, Paul. That's the most beautiful introduction. Thank you.

Paul Meunier 

Well, I'm off to a good start, right, I did a nice job already so here we go. Will you just start this episode off by sharing how your undiagnosed ADHD influenced you and impacted your developmental years.

Charlotte Gordon 

Okay, so I started self-harming when I was about nine years old, maybe eight, nine years old. And if I look back, now I can sort of see a lot of that. I had come from a time where children were seen and not heard. And I was heard a lot. And I made a lot of noise. And I think a lot of my excitement was taken as annoyance by teachers and family and I just it wasn't picked up in the same way. And instead, it was just picked up as like really bad behavior really difficult, maybe even purposeful difficult behavior. And I'm not 20, I'm a little bit more than that. And just I just came from a time where people shamed people for that behavior. And that really impacted my self-esteem and who I am and how I feel about myself. Whilst on the outside, I presented with this sort of like very confident, loud exterior, a lot that was going on inside was a lot of anxiety and worry that I wasn't fitting in and just couldn't do the things that I was being asked.

Paul Meunier 

So, people were saying, gee, Charlotte, you're disruptive, you might even be purposeful. Why you being this way, quit being so difficult. Did you buy into that concept as a young person? Were you thinking, Yeah, I am kind of a troublemaker or were you at that point, just kind of tuned into the fact that no, I'm not doing this on purpose. Where were you at when you're younger, if you can recall?

Charlotte Gordon 

Yeah, I think like probably like under 10, I couldn't get it. I really was trying to be fun. And I mean, I think one of my school reports said that Charlotte has joked her way through the term, which I sort of look back on it and think, isn't that the way that everybody should get through the term? Yeah. So, I think then I didn't get it. And I felt like why couldn't I be like everybody else. And then when I hit sort of like secondary school, what you call high school, then I started to just go for it and be that really difficult. I don't think I would have even accepted help had it even been offered or noticed. I was very, very difficult, very irritable, I was self-harming, I picked up a lot of other harming behaviors. My eating wasn't good. I picked terrible friends. And then obviously, when I got older, my romantic relationships I picked terribly there. So, it was just so cliched, it's so obvious now. But then it just wasn't noticed at all. I was just seen as a very rebellious, difficult child. Yeah, very hard.

Paul Meunier 

So, there were systems in place, didn't recognize what your needs were. Clearly now you can see you're full of energy, full of life, full of intelligence, but everybody was missing it. And so you got to secondary school, and you just said, Forget them then, right? I'm just going to be who they think I am, and just make the world difficult.

Charlotte Gordon 

I'm going to be worse than that, Paul.

Paul Meunier 

Okay.

Charlotte Gordon 

They were awful, it was absolutely awful, truly. And I wouldn't repeat my teens for anything. I think that's how I ended up doing youth work, I really understood the inside job that is going on in young people, because it was going on for me and my anxiety and how I felt about myself, was ruling everything around me. And yeah, you in those days, boys had ADHD because they sort of ran around. And whereas with girls, it's very, very, you know, internal. It's not such a physical thing, which is how it was for me. But yeah, it was not good in the slightest. Yeah.

Paul Meunier 

Yeah. And then this kind of awful developmental years that you had were really problematic and you did some self-harm behavior. You hinted a little bit at it. But can you talk a little bit more about why you think you were engaged in self-harm behavior? And then what kind of things were you doing?

Charlotte Gordon 

I know exactly why I was engaged in self-harming behavior. I was trying to switch off my brain. And when you're trying to when you do something else, you think about the thing that you're doing, you focus on the thing that you're doing. So, cutting, picking, interfering with cuts, things like that, which is, yeah, that's how it started. And I just sort of continued that on and off. Yeah, quite a lot of my teens, it was just, yeah, it just meant that when I go into school, the next day, I was in pain from the day before, and I'd be even more prickly and even more difficult and even less focused. And you know, I don't know about the American school system but in England, you sit a certain way, you hold your pen a certain way, you don't look out the window. It's like robots. And I was just not a robot. And I didn't want to be a robot. But I think I did a bit want to be a robot as well. You know that. Yeah, very, very difficult. I could only really sort of be a robot very briefly and momentarily. And then the real me would be there. And yeah, and it wasn't good for school.

Paul Meunier 

Yeah, I can imagine. So, these people were missing the talents that you have, quite honestly and we're going to talk about those. And the energy and the enthusiasm you bring to life and people around you is certainly a gift but it was being missed. Were people recognizing the self-harm behavior at this point, were people stepping in and saying Charlotte, come on, what's up?

Charlotte Gordon 

Nope, no one noticed anything. No one noticed any of the cutting. And for some people, they don't know this about me at all. The eating disorders, and the unhealthy relationships, and the drug taking, that all came in my teens. I hung around with people who I would have said were my best friends and they were horrible to me. And I think that's quite common of young people to think that they've really like, got a solid friendship with somebody, but they really haven't. You know, half the time these people were just they were so mean to me, or they were mean to someone else in the group. And I would just, you know, I'd let them be horrible to the other people just hoping it wouldn't be me that day. And I bullied myself. You know, I was bullied. And I believe and all of that is part of what made me feel terrible. Half you know, half the time just messing around with drugs and my serotonin levels and not really understanding mental health at all. And that yeah, it has a big impact on a person for sure.

Paul Meunier 

I gotta believe it has. It sounds like those were tough years. What about your immediate caregivers, your family, what were they saying about all this? And were they in tune with it, did they understand?

Charlotte Gordon 

Oblivious. Completely and utterly oblivious. There was definitely they were aware of like, food stealing and from the binge eating. And I'd get told off for that, or just generally being what my mum called slovenly, you know, like, messy and dirty. And that was, you know, that's ADHD. It's like you don't clear up because it looks like a really big job. So, you don't want to do it. But no one gives you the skills and just says Right, this is how you need to do it. Even just like me knowing how to do simple first aid on myself would have been really useful. And that's something that I say to people whose children are self-harming, teach them all self-first aid so that they can sort it themselves as well. You know, because it makes you more upset when you haven't managed to sort the cuts out yourself.

Paul Meunier 

Well, what point in your life did somebody recognize that this ADHD might be having an impact on who you are, and your ability to navigate into what the systems expected of you? When did this become clear that you could do something about this and find your way in the world a little bit more successfully?

Charlotte Gordon 

Well, I think as soon as I left school and went to college, I became a real avid learner. And I was learning something that I wanted to learn. I was learning childcare, and it was on my terms, play involved, it was really enjoyable. And then I got into youth work. So, my ADHD diagnosis actually didn't come until my son was diagnosed. And then I was diagnosed off the back of him. So, it was only in the last 10 years that I've actually had an ADHD diagnosis.

Paul Meunier 

Wow. So, nobody recognized it until they recognized it in your son first and then they thought maybe there's a hereditary thing here?

Charlotte Gordon 

No, I recognized it. When I was, yeah, when I was reading about it, because I was trying to learn learn about it for my son. I was, like, Oh, my goodness, this is me big time. And apparently, it's really common that for every child, the adult gets diagnosed as well. It is genetic. And yeah, I always say, you know, I've given my kids ADHD, eczema, all the fun stuff.

Paul Meunier 

This must have been mind blowing to you when you were reading this, right? Was this just like, oh my god, this is me. This is why I've had all these difficulties?

Charlotte Gordon 

Yeah, I wish I'd known earlier. Because the things that I put in place once I left school, once I started to organize myself, and prepare myself, like in university, I knew that I needed to get all of my essays in as soon as I'd been given them. Sometimes that was five months before. But I know me, if I don't do it then, I'm not doing it ever. And that's really ADHD. You know, you need timers, you need to remember things. And I've had to learn along the way how to do those things. And even just learn how to learn, which is something that lots of young people do learn in school, but a lot of ADHD people, we just don't have the skills. We don't know how to learn. Fascinating, really.

Paul Meunier 

Yeah. So, you were just never taught how to learn how to learn. And then you figured that on your own. This must have just been a remarkable time for you in college. Is this when you feel like you really started to blossom and really started to feel like you understood yourself and so maybe some of that pain and some of those other things you were feeling were lifted?

Charlotte Gordon 

Yeah, 100%. And all of a sudden, this enthusiasm that I have was really sort of I recognized what a gift it was, and just how much other people enjoyed being around that sort of space which I hadn't noticed in school at all. I felt very much alone. But once I sort of worked that out and I started doing youth work and working with young people properly and yeah, it was all about energy. It was all about like, being really vibrant and bright and making like the most miserable young people lift up to that energy. Like I wouldn't match their energy, they have to come and match mine, which if any of you know me, it's that it's a fun place to be, up here with the ADHD people. For sure.

Paul Meunier 

Yeah, and now this energy and this is enthusiasm and the fun you bring to work is just so contagious, and it's so wonderful. And that's what I want to get into when we return from the break. So, we'll be right back after this short message.

Jade Schleif 

No matter how you support our young people, The Professional Youth Worker, powered by YIPA, has your training and learning needs covered. Visit training.yipa.org, that's training.yipa.org to see for yourself. And then join the 1000s of youth workers around the globe who learn from our easy to access exceptional trainings. From our blogs to our podcast, The Professional Youth Worker is your go-to resource for tools to help you keep going, keep learning, and keep growing. Members enjoy free, unlimited access to Live Online and On-Demand trainings, and a preferred discount pricing for our one-of-a-kind certificate course. Annual memberships are ridiculously affordable for individuals and organizations. Visit training.yipa.org today to learn more, that's training.yipa.org.

Paul Meunier 

Charlotte, right before the break, we kind of shifted from, I don't know, this heavy topic of how childhood was difficult to also now just this blossoming of this energetic, full of life personality a youth worker is and when did you first start to notice that young people were going to be your key to unlocking all the energy and then the enthusiasm you bring into your work?

Charlotte Gordon 

I think I knew that I got on with young people. I'd been working at a nursery when I would know, previous to that. And once I started doing youth work, it was my vibe totally. I was actually quite shocked because I'd done it voluntary for my youth service and when I realized you could actually get paid and it was like a job, I just couldn't believe it. This is like so fun. It's exactly what I want to be doing. It's so creative. Everyone bounces off everybody. Lots of people are high energy in youth work as well so that you have that nice relationship with other people who are like you. Yeah, it's a really non-judgmental space, which was the opposite of how I had been brought up really. No shame, no judgment, just embracing everybody, for who they are.

Paul Meunier 

What a beautiful place for you to be in where young people are not going to judge you for who you are. Matter of fact, I gotta believe they gotta love you for who you are because you make it so much fun. And young people, maybe more than anything, just want to kind of enjoy life and have fun and not be so serious and stuck in all the global kind of stress everybody's feeling. And you bring so much of that too. Matter of fact, when we were getting to know each other, you talked about you bring color to youth work. Can you talk about what that means? I think I kind of get it but describe it in your own words.

Charlotte Gordon 

Well, a lot of my youth work happens in schools. So, you know, I really believe that teachers should do a youth work course and should have a youth work module because the way that you communicate with young people on that really high level of excitement and enthusiasm. Yeah, I think you get a lot more attention from young people, you build a much bigger rapport with them. They appreciate your authenticity, they show their authenticity. And it's so reciprocated. Yeah, I've just always enjoyed that connection with young people and the connections that you would get back, that feeling of connection

Paul Meunier 

And the energy you bring, and I know we're on the other side of the pond but you know what, I can feel your energy coming through on, you know, this virtual platform. And I got to believe the energy, the vibes that you bring has just got to be electrifying for everybody around you. And so, this ADHD was once a liability, now you've turned it into a positive attribute that just helps so many people.

Charlotte Gordon 

100%. I am so, I feel so lucky to have these parts of my personality and to be able to tap into these parts of myself and share them with other young people as well. I don't think these are things that young people, without a neurotypical, young people can't get down with. Everybody loves fun and enjoyment and learning in an informal way. And yeah, and feeling good in that way. So, yeah. Through COVID and stuff we did it online and things like that and it made zero difference. I still had exactly the same energy, it was just as wild, just as fun, if not more wild actually at times.

Paul Meunier 

The moment is called for you to just kind of cut loose a little bit right and bring some levity to the work and to the life people bring. And you know your story, what is so fascinating to me about it is what was once seen like a problem has turned into such an asset for you. And you think about all the young people who are displaying behaviors like you displayed, right? We know them, we see them.

Charlotte Gordon 

 Sure.

Paul Meunier 

There's sadly quite a few of them these days, and they're all just looking for a way to turn who they are into some sort of skill set that they can bring, right? And I mean, is that like kind of how you view your work with young people?

Charlotte Gordon 

Totally. It's actually, in the UK, they reckon that 80% of young men in prisons have a diagnosis of ADHD. That's actually diagnosed. So, that's quite high. I just don't think that's a coincidence that people are seen as difficult. I really believe that the skills that you have as a good youth worker are skills for business, they're skills for, you know, sales and all these other things. They are so transferrable in so many ways. Yeah, I don't think we focus on them enough with young people, which is a lot of the work that I'm doing with KIPP, is trying to lift the lid on that really.

Paul Meunier 

Wow. Yeah. You know, when we first got to know each other, and we had a pre-interview before we did our recording, I was just loving my time with you. It was just so much fun. And we've done like, I don't know, 80, or 90, or something like that of these episodes. But you are the very first one that this morning, when we first logged in and we could see each other, you just looked in the microphone and went AAARR! It was the most shocking thing I've ever seen. And it was also the most welcome thing I think I've ever seen for me to start my day with that kind of energy. You know, are you always like that, are you just full of like humor and wild antics and kind of a show?

Charlotte Gordon 

100% its performance. I mean, for me youth work is performance. When I'm training, when I'm teaching, it's definitely performance. And I would say I am like that the whole way through. But probably if I've done like five sessions back-to-back, when I come home I'm probably a bit drained of all of that. And yeah. But I guess I am, I guess the thing with really good youth work and I guess the thing with me for definite is, I could be enthusiastic about, you know, a playing card if that's what the task is. Let's get lively, because that's the task.

Paul Meunier 

Yeah. And that's the secret of youth work in general, is that we need to bring our authentic selves, we need to bring who we are, and just lay it all out on the table so they understand us and can develop trust with us. You're so naturally good at that. It just comes out. And I don't know if you try to be that way, or is it it's just who you are?

Charlotte Gordon 

100%.

Paul Meunier 

Mhmm.

Charlotte Gordon 

It's 100% just who I am. I guess if you live with it, which my family do, they sometimes find it quite annoying. I've got to be honest.

Paul Meunier 

I've kind of been wondering, yeah, what your immediate family said about that? Yeah.

Charlotte Gordon 

Yeah, that would probably be true. And I think everybody needs that in their life. I know I do. I'm very focused on my mental health. I've had to be focused on my mental health, I take it very, very seriously. And I don't just preach mental health and preach self-care. I mean it deep down in my soul, how important it is that we should all have a good understanding of our mental health. And I just feel like that is a lesson that I didn't learn as a young person that I really believe would actually change the face of the world if we had a bit more insight to our mental health, and human values, and all of that lovely stuff. Yeah, then I think things would be very, very different.

Paul Meunier 

Yeah, you know, people come on this podcast, The Passionate Youth Worker podcast for different reasons. Why did you decide to come on and tell your story?

Charlotte Gordon 

Well, I've heard a lot of other people's stories and from listening to the podcast and they were amazing. I actually didn't think that I would be able to tell my story because comparatively, I mean, I listened to one a couple of weeks ago, a guy in Nigeria, and I was just like, oh, wow, this is and I knew I was coming on then. And I just thought, oh, geez, this is amazing. You know, this is this, this guy is doing the most incredible work. I am in a, you know, a western society where whilst things are not perfect, it's not, you know, the same situation that this guy is dealing with. Yeah, I actually thought it would just be a fun thing to do, to be honest. So, I think that's it really.

Paul Meunier 

Yeah. Well, I'm glad you did because your story is one of hope and inspiration, and the epitome of what some of our young people are experiencing. You are the outcome of what youth workers can do to help people find their way in the world and to be able to give back and to share a little bit about what they've learned along the way. You're so good at this. So, I'm really glad you did and I'm really glad you came on. And it seems like you have so much enthusiasm, so much love for young people, so much energy to bring to this. But I have to ask you the opposite question, the other side of the coin. Do you have any regrets about doing this work at all?

Charlotte Gordon 

No. 100% no. I mean, I look at some people around me who I've always had job satisfaction. And I think that job satisfaction overrules everything. You can work and work and work and save, and save and have it all at the end. But I've had a really good time, all the way through. And I can plan to continue having a great time. And my facilitators who work for me, that is one of the things that I will say at the end of their interview, I really want you to have a good time, you need to call me afterwards and tell me what a good time you had. And they call me, they're buzzing, they're like, so excited, you know that. And because I think that when you connect with young people in that environment, it is a buzz, it is a thrill because you know the work that you're doing is good work. You know, it's really good work, it feels good. No, I definitely don't have any regrets about the work that I do in not even not, I don't even have to think about it actually.

Paul Meunier 

That's wonderful. You truly are the passionate youth worker. You dedicate all your energy into helping other people. And that is so admirable. And I think about the guests that we've interviewed, and I think about you. And it is amazing to me how many people around the globe are pouring everything that they have into helping young people. There's something special about being able to do this work. And the gifts you bring, your energy, your enthusiasm, and it is so critical that we find avenues for all young people like you have found. And I for one am really grateful that you made it through those turbulent years and your self-harm was never so bad that it restricted you from growing into the person that you are today because you are a gift to this industry. You're a gift to people. And I just want to thank you for everything you've done. And thank you for being a guest on The Passionate Youth Worker podcast.

Charlotte Gordon 

Thank you for having me. I've loved sharing my story. Thank you.

Paul Meunier 

You know, Charlotte before we go, because you've listened to the episodes you know I always give the guest the last word. So, before we go, what words of wisdom or inspiration would you like to leave with the listeners?

Charlotte Gordon 

Okay, so I would definitely say that wherever you are, if you feel lost, and you're not sure what you're doing or where you're going or you're worried about something and you're panicking and distress, maybe your relationships aren't going well. You don't like your job anymore. You don't know what to study or whatever it is. Focus on your mental health. Focus. Focus and everything else will just slot into place.

Paul Meunier 

If you would like to share your passion for youth work, we'd love to spotlight you as a guest. If you have feedback about the show, please let us know. Just visit training.yipa.org, that's training.yipa.org and click on the podcast tab. This podcast is made possible in part due to a generous contribution from M Health Fairview. I'm your host, Paul Meunier. Thanks for listening to The Passionate Youth Worker.