Ndiilokelwa Nthengwe 

When I was younger, I think I felt quite a cloud of shame that engulfed me based on my needs as a young person. And it's not that my household was like traumatic or anything. I just feel like maybe because I was young, I didn't know whether or not I could seek these kinds of opportunities. And I was privileged enough to go to a good school where a few opportunities would come up here and there but I realized that those were just very, very rare occasions. And I think that's why my main focus is really on ensuring that young people are empowered and young people have those opportunities.

Paul Meunier 

Hello, I'm Paul Meunier, the executive director of the Youth Intervention Programs Association, and I'm a youth worker at heart. How lucky am I, I have the privilege to meet youth workers from around the globe and learn their stories and share them with the entire world. I'm glad you're listening because together we'll learn how their life experiences shape their youth work. As you listen, I encourage you to consider how your experiences shape what you have to offer young people. Welcome to this edition of The Passionate Youth Worker. Hi, everybody. For this episode, we're joined by Ndiilokelwa Nthengwe from the Khomas region in Namibia. She is the executive director and co-founder of Voices for Choices and Rights Coalition. And she's the chief executive officer and founder of her own tech company. Ndiilokelwa is an artist at heart and uses her artistic side to advocate for social justice issues. She is a warm and humble leader doing what she can to make the world a better place for underrepresented individuals. Ndiilo thanks for being a guest on The Passionate Youth Worker.

Ndiilokelwa Nthengwe 

Thank you so much for having me.

Paul Meunier 

It is wonderful to have you here. And since the day I met you, I have been excited for recording this episode. So, let's dive right in. Ndiilo, your mom was also a founder of a social program and an activist in her own right. Can you talk a little bit about what your mom used to advocate for and what kind of program she founded?

Ndiilokelwa Nthengwe 

Awesome. Thank you so so much. So, my mom was a nurse by profession. She was working for the state hospital, one of our oldest state hospitals to date in the country, the Katutura State Hospital. And during the time that she was working in the hospitals, she always tended to especially mothers and women living with HIV, particularly the mothers who were breastfeeding. And she found a gap actually within the system that you know, the mothers can actually transmit the virus, the HIV virus to their babies if they're breastfeeding. So, my mom decided then to start buying food hampers and milk to support the mothers in order for them not to breastfeed. And so, through this process, she would store some of the food in the cabinet in her office, just a tiny little cabinet of you know, just a few, you know, samples of milk, some food hampers, and so forth. And it really did also spread because through word of mouth more and more mothers that were not even being treated by my mom as a nurse would come to her asking and requesting for either formula milk or for some food in order for them not just for breastfeeding, but also for sustenance because my mother, especially at the state hospital, was working with majority poor and black women who really didn't have access to many other resources. And so, in the process, I suppose that more and more mothers came and my mom decided to move this project. It wasn't called anything yet but she just thought it would be a project. She moved it to our home. And so, through this process, it's when we found that over the months about 300 women, mothers would come to our house where they would receive food hampers and milk. Now this had already progressed towards the stage where my mother would receive some funding in-kind or donations in-kind just to be able to get the projects running. And through this process, she founded Mount Sinai Centre, which was what the organization was called. And when she founded Mount Sinai Centre, she officially registered through also I suppose, some good Samaritans that actually came from America. And so, when she incorporated her organization so the mothers would be you know, they would come to our house they would get food hampers formula milk, they will still be getting ongoing HIV tests, they will be initiated on the HIV medication etc. Until the city of Windhoek in Namibia donated a plot of land to my mother. And through this process, she's conceptualized the building, put together a whole sketch of how she wants it to look like, and it was built. So, after that you know all of these beneficiaries would go to the Centre. And that's how she established her system. So, my mother definitely built, you know, from the ground up just her whole organization, just from the gap where she recognized that actually these mothers and their kids are vulnerable. And we need to find other ways to fill those gaps.

Paul Meunier 

Wow, your mother sounds like an incredible person. And she probably saved the lives of a lot of people just through some of the simple steps she took because she recognized there was a need there. And you were a young person watching this. What were you thinking? Did this just seem like a normal thing, it just was part of who your family was, or did you recognize that this is a pretty special thing your mother's doing?

Ndiilokelwa Nthengwe 

I didn't actually realize that what she was doing was, I suppose, very, very significant because we were very, very young. But later on, you know, it did grow on us. Because for example, we would go shopping with my mom and with the rest of the family to buy the formula milk or to buy the food hampers. And in most cases, when it was during the time that we would put together these hampers, a lot of family members would come over to our house and it would probably create, you know that family bond between us. So, we would put together the plastic bags, we would put together, you know all the different food samples in one bag, we would ration out, you know how many are coming this Saturday because the activities would be hosted every second Saturday of the month. So, every other second Saturday, we know what we are preparing for. Our neighbors also would also somehow get involved because our house would get very full at some point, you know, hosting between 300 to 400 mothers, and then children also running around. So, we were basically tasked with just managing a few things here and there. But I think that process definitely did change my life. I think right now I can say that there are a lot of full circle moments that I will touch on, but it definitely changed my life.

Paul Meunier 

I bet it did. And it caused you to be just this intense advocate for people who are not treated justly in this world. And you're doing so many great things with that. And we'll get into all that. But did you know then that you were going to be doing this kind of work that you're doing now then or did you want to do other pursuits? I know you've got this technology thing, you're really good with that. You loved arts, art is kind of who you are deep down inside. Did you know you were gonna always be an activist and do things or were you pursuing something else at first when you were first starting up out of school in your professional life?

Ndiilokelwa Nthengwe 

I didn't know because I've always wanted to be a dancer. In fact, I wanted to dance and I wanted to play soccer, because I fell in love with soccer as a sport in my street playing against all of my brothers and winning and being good at it and being better than them. And at the same time, I think I fell in love with dance because of my Cuban stepfather. He used to love dancing. And I enjoyed dancing a lot with him. But later on, I decided to incorporate different genres in my dancing. And then at some point, I was elevated to a point where I would dance professionally at the National Theatre of Namibia, or through different platforms at competitions. And later on, I would attract crowds, I would attract that kind of attention. And so, I fell in love with dancing and soccer was also one of those ones that I really did enjoy doing because I did do it very well. So, I've never imagined that I would later on find myself also being sort of in the same kind of sector that my mom worked in within the civil society space. And yeah, so dancing has always been my passion.

Paul Meunier 

What were you hoping to do with the dancing career? Did you want to just be in shows? Did you want to be in movies? Did you want to dance internationally? I mean, what were your dreams about dancing? What did you think you were going to accomplish with that?

Ndiilokelwa Nthengwe 

I wanted to take on dancing as an academic discipline actually. I wanted to understand how dancing is, how we move. And that's why I suppose that even after high school, I applied to one of the other art schools in South Africa, at least two of them. And that was really around incorporating drama, of course, but I wanted to study what dancing is. Because for me, I've been dancing almost sort of like informally in other spaces. But I was able to catch on with the beats and you know how many steps it takes to make a certain move or to express yourself musically through dance. And I thought that that might be something that could be measured or that I could study. So, I think that I've applied to those schools. And I was accepted into the other, but I couldn't afford, of course. And later on, I opted for studying the business behind arts that includes all of live performances through dance through, you know, like live music, and so forth, and what the business looks like, but also from a tech lens. That's how I got into tech. But I think for me, I think I wanted to pursue dancing as an academic discipline, so that I can sort of get a degree. I would watch a lot of these, you know, international shows like So You Think You Can Dance. And I've always seen myself on those stages, I've always seen myself somehow dancing alongside Beyonce, like we all do. And I've always seen myself really taking on much more bigger stages through dance.

Paul Meunier 

Well, you seem like such a multi-faceted, talented person. And then somehow you got into advocating on the behalf of rights of the LGBTQ+ community. Can you talk a little bit about why that came about?

Ndiilokelwa Nthengwe 

So, I suppose that through my personality, I guess, and through how I grew up because we were raised non-conventionally, or unconventionally. In my household, of course being the only girl and with having also brothers, who are my brothers, or my only siblings, I suppose, is that I had a lot of references to their side of the world. But I also think that in as much as I tried to incorporate references from my own world from a female, I suppose, feminine perspective, there was always some kind of deviation for me. And I suppose that maybe later on, that's when I realized that I'm actually non-binary. But I think that throughout the years with my personality, growing through dancing, and being so much more confident, playing soccer, and then later on finding myself at an organization where they advocate for LGBTQ+ persons, this was in 2019. I think at that moment, I did find my Mecca around where and who I should be. Because this is post now also my mom having passed on. And this is now me post coming back from studies in Cape Town, and really trying to find my feet, trying to earn a living. And somehow I find myself also now employed at an LGBTQ+ organization as their first advocacy and communications officer. So, through that process that was how I got into LGBTQ+ activism. And I think my why was almost it wasn't, it wasn't immediate. It was almost thrusted onto me because at the same time is that I'm at this organization, and we are organizing protests on the side, or we are organizing rallies on the side. And somehow as the communications person, I now become a mouthpiece, not just for the organization, but through the visibility that this position has put me in, I now become a mouthpiece countrywide for LGBTQ+ people. So, I suppose it was through my portfolio in the organization that I became within, you know, the structures and this visibility for an LGBTQ+ activist.

Paul Meunier 

Well, that community is lucky to have you on their side. Here in the United States there's a lot of pushback for people who do that kind of advocacy work, not so much with gay and lesbian people. But it was especially when you get into the binary choices and the transgender population. Here there's a lot of pushback for that. Do you receive pushback as well? Are there people who are working actively against you?

Ndiilokelwa Nthengwe 

I think that I didn't expect to receive pushback until after on. I think for me, before I even joined the very first organization that I was working with I had also been open about my sexuality with my family. And I didn't receive pushback necessarily. I've always been accepted, even when I was playing soccer and I would be almost unconventional in the way I express myself. It was always accepted. But when I joined the organization and becoming then this face of the organization, and then also advancing advocacy through the media, I then realized that actually I have taken on quite a lot. But at the same time, I realized that there was still rampant entrenched homophobia in our country. So, the pushback has always been the incidence there, and it definitely existed before. The only thing is I became much, much more aware since I joined the organization.

Paul Meunier 

Where do you find your strength to do all this? How do you develop such deep passion and resilience about all the obstacles that you face? Where does that come from? Do you think your mom kind of set the example for that or do you just have it, who you are, and your character?

Ndiilokelwa Nthengwe 

I don't know. I think that it's a combination of things. Because it's interesting that you asked that question because recently, I've been contemplating around intersectional sustainability. And sustainability also comes out of strength. And what I've learned is, through my mom's organization, over the years, she had struggled a little bit to be sustainable as her organization. And I think that my strength is drawn from being sustainable and being secure. Secure enough in myself and in the future to take on so many of these issues. And for me, that comes with intellectual strength. I always need to sharpen my mind, I always need to read, I always need to find and figure out ways on how to do things better, to be more innovative. And then the other is also the mental strength. And I think this was when I found Vipassana Meditation in 2018. This was my last year of graduation in Cape Town. And I think I wanted to find other ways for me to really, to really deal with my traumas, to deal with my own internal issues. And for some reason, I came across Yuval Noah Harari's book is one of the most recognized historians. He wrote Sapiens and Homo Deus. And in the books he wrote about Vipassana and how it strengthened him in his writing. And it gave him a lot of durability. And I thought, I want something like that. I want to feel durable in the work that I do, wherever it is that I am. So, when I started meditation it really, it really changed my life again. And so, I think that is where I draw a lot of strength from, vitality from. And then of course, I think I would say I do have a few pillars of strength in my life in terms of friends and family that have always been there as good soundboards for me to really just reflect on etc. Beyond that is I think that I've always also been a writer. I would write and express myself. And I mean, right now I'm a published author. But before that, I think writing was one of those areas where I could tap into to express myself. So, there was this, it's bits and pieces of things. But I think overall, I would say meditation currently is sort of like my bread and butter. If I don't meditate, I don't think I get enough strength to do everything that I need to do.

Paul Meunier 

Well, you certainly have a lot on your plate. And there certainly is a lot of things you've accomplished already. You're a pretty young person, but you've done so much. Ndiilokelwa, we have to take a short break. But when we come back, I want to ask you a few more questions about where your desire to work with young people come from and we'll be right back.

Ndiilokelwa Nthengwe 

Awesome.

Jade Schleif 

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Paul Meunier 

Right before the break I mentioned I'd like to talk to you about your work with young people. So, you're a lifelong learner. You've already written books, you've already started companies, you started a foundation, you're a nationally recognized advocate for LGBTQ rights in your country. And I know you kind of focus on young people too. Why young people, why do you think that that's so important that you be their voice in your country?

Ndiilokelwa Nthengwe 

I think because for me as a young person, it comes back to opportunities for me. And this is already reflected in the way that I'm programming activities within our organization and any other activities that I take on is the longevity and the opportunity to just be seen and to exist. So, for example, I'm working on programs around how to get more young people to be recognized for their writing, through publishing anthologies, for example, or assisting them to write opinion pieces for that to be published in the newspapers. And even within our organization, we opened the clinic, we launched the clinic. So, we are focusing really on young people who need stigma-free access to health care, etc. And I think for me is when I was younger, I think I felt quite a cloud of shame that engulfed me based on my needs as a young person. And that was particularly because I feel that it's not that my household was like traumatic or anything, I just feel like maybe, because I was young, I didn't know whether or not I could ask or whether or not I could seek these kinds of opportunities. And I was privileged enough to go to sort of a good school where a few opportunities would come up here and there like spelling bee competitions, for example. But right now, I realized that those were just very, very rare occasions where opportunities would come up. And I think that's why my main focus is really on ensuring that young people are empowered and young people have those opportunities. For example, I do have a colleague of mine, she's much younger, but we are in the activism space. In fact, she is a board member of our organization. And she also has her own business. And, you know, we always talk about how people are gatekeepers within certain communities. I'm even certainly experiencing gatekeeping, within my own generation. And I spoke to her about her businesses. And in a matter of a week, I got her to register her company. Because I know how important it was for her. And I know how important it was just in terms of longevity, institutionalizing, and really making sure that you become sustainable in the future. So, I think for me, young people are always going to be very front and center in all the decisions that we take. Because I lacked that same kind of attention back in my own childhood, and in my own background, and growing up, etc. So, that's why it's really close to my heart.

Paul Meunier 

Yeah, I can tell and Ndiilokelwa, I think of like the young people who are like you, full of talent, full of skill, and artistic, and just everything you want out of a human being. And so many young people like you never get the opportunities to do things. Do you ever think about that, like, think of how much talent we've suppressed in the history of the human, the human race? How many people like you have never been allowed to blossom? And where would we be today? I mean, do you ever ponder that and think about that, because I know I do. I'm so impressed by you. And I've worked with young people and I see their talents. And I know some of them have never had the chance to develop into who they should be.

Ndiilokelwa Nthengwe 

I definitely do because it started a long time ago, when I was told that I can't pursue dancing because it doesn't bring any kind of financial stability. And over the years, maybe I believed it too much that when I did go study in Cape Town, even though I was accepted for arts, I couldn't afford it. And I decided to opt for something else, to stay a little bit closer to the arts. But that has had me mourn you know, my past life, mourn my talents, mourn what could have been, what I might have been. And that comes back to also my tech company because the tech company looks at how individuals can traverse across different industries in a single, you know, given moment where they work and they maximize themselves. And at the heart of it is really self-actualization because I knew from the very beginning when I founded the company, that people are multi-skilled and multi-talented, and they shouldn't have to sit at one office space for so many hours whilst all the other talents are being underutilized. And I think that speaks to especially my motto, my ethos around and even just my, my principles around how I value people's potential and why the potential needs to constantly be harnessed from all other aspects. Even within my organization for the for the clinic itself, we are currently employing about almost 20 people, and all of them are employed at other establishments and they also work at us at our establishment, not necessarily as part time, but within the nonconventional model of working through which my tech company actually is founded. Because what we recognize is yes, we realize that the world is changing, the world of work is changing. You cannot keep someone in one space constantly all the time. But also because they have so much more to offer now. They can traverse their ideas between their company and our company and we are actually growing much better. So, I suppose that it's always been on my mind around how many of us have to mourn a past life, or a life that is still trying to come back into every other different facet, you know of what you're doing. For example, with me with the arts, and the dancing, I'm always incorporating arts in anything else that I do programmatically. And that keeps me closer to the artists. It's, something but I definitely always think about how many more people we have lost through them having to reinvent themselves.

Paul Meunier 

You talked about empowering young people, help them develop their skills in a way that's beneficial for them. How do you think the best way to empower young people, what's the best strategy for that? Because I know all youth workers, that's their goal. Anybody who works with young people, you want to give them the courage, the confidence, the understanding that they can do what they want if they have people that believe in them. So, how do you think the best way to empower young people is?

Ndiilokelwa Nthengwe 

You know, I think for me, the most basic and simple answer but also reflection on that is really, first you need to believe in them. But then secondly is you need to also, the leadership needs to be there. So, by leadership, I mean those qualities around your confidence. It needs to be harnessed; you need to make sure that they are confident in themselves. And then you need to believe in them, believe in their goals, believe in their dreams, believe in whatever it is that they want to achieve. Because ultimately, I think it comes back to confidence. But then you cannot have just confidence, you need leadership, and you need discipline. And I think this is one of the ways that young people, I suppose even within my own generation, having been an activist probably for the last three years now is that there's quite a lot that I've learned but if I didn't have the foundations from when I started Vipassana meditation, from when I took on the business course in South Africa that led me to become a business leader for my tech company, to when I became a different kind of person later on as an activist, etc. If I didn't have the foundation, I think I would be an overconfident individual with no substance, I suppose. And will lack self-awareness, and with a big, big ego. So, I think that leadership is very important, but young people need to be seen, and they need their ideas and goals to, to really, people need to really believe in them so that they can build their confidence enough and their foundation as individuals enough and become leaders in whatever way that they can.

Paul Meunier 

I can't imagine the things you're going to accomplish in your life and the good you're going to bring to this world. And I know that that will probably always change and shift and grow because you're a continuous learner, always taking on the next task. But what are you working on right now, Ndiilokelwa, what is the thing that's just pushing you really hard, just today, what are you focused on?

Ndiilokelwa Nthengwe 

So, the main thing currently pushing me today is the clinic. And it's a full circle moment. And this is something I was reflecting on yesterday, that writing about intersectional sustainability is a full circle moment where my mom was a nurse and she was also working in the state hospital and in another clinic at some point. And she was focusing on mothers and women and my clinic focuses on women, intersectionality, and ensuring that women have, women and the LGBTQ people, they have options, they have choices, and they really attain that level of reproductive justice that is otherwise completely removed from their everyday experience. So, my main focus is on ensuring that the clinic is running as smoothly as it can be. So, beyond and above that is with a clinic is really around building systems, building institutions, finding other ways to be more sustainable, to have more foundation, to have more security. And that comes back to us now trying to open a restaurant where it is linked to actual activism, where our signature cocktails will touch on feminism, consent, you know, having a cocktail of patriarchy for example, what that looks like, and working within different civil society spaces for us to arrive at specific mixes and flavors, especially with the dishes to make sure that we are environmentally conscious, we are conscious of everything else. Also within inclusion for the persons with disability for them to also find their identities and being represented through our menu. So, we're trying to make sure that we expand much further. And that is where I want to be at right now. The visibility has been there for the past three years. And yes, perhaps I am recognizable now. But I think that I need to feel a little bit more grounded. And that is through expansion. We want to expand the clinics, I want to expand, I want to open the restaurant, I want to launch a wine, and maybe I will write more books. But I think it's really about institutionalizing at this point to be sustainable.

Paul Meunier 

I am so inspired listening to you. I feel that I have a passion. I feel like I'm not on your level. I just am so pleased you reached out and we had the opportunity to meet. I feel like I'm a better person just from spending a little time with you. And so, I want to thank you on behalf of all the young people that you are impacting and just the communities that you are a champion, who need a champion on their side, and you are the person to create change. And so, thank you for everything you do. And thanks for being a guest on our little Passionate Youth Worker podcast. I can't imagine what your future brings for you.

Ndiilokelwa Nthengwe 

Thank you so, so much. And I'm really inspired once more through this podcast, through this interview. And I'm very grateful to have met you and your team. I am looking forward to the future. And I'm looking forward to sharing everything else that I'm doing this side with you and your team.

Paul Meunier 

Before we go, we always give the guest the last word. So, Ndiilo, what words of wisdom or inspiration would you like to leave with our listeners?

Ndiilokelwa Nthengwe 

Yes, okay. I think it comes back to our interview what I spoke about earlier. I really wish that more people would see young people and truly see them. Not see them as some tokenistic kind of representation, not see them as visibility stunts, or not see them as you know, quotas within their donor funding programs. Not see them as people to, I suppose to pity or to look down on. But to really see them, to really see who they are, to really see what their minds are, to pay attention to them, pay attention to what they want for themselves. And to really give them the chance just to breathe and to feel as open as possible. Otherwise, I think that most young people will come into activism from a survivalist point of view. And it's really just for them to also find a way to make a living instead of to make a difference. So, I think that I want young people to be seen enough for them to make a difference.

Paul Meunier 

If you would like to share your passion for youth work, we'd love to spotlight you as a guest. If you have feedback about the show, please let us know. Just visit training.yipa.org, that's training.yipa.org and click on the podcast tab. This podcast is made possible in part due to a generous contribution from M Health Fairview. I'm your host, Paul Meunier. Thanks for listening to The Passionate Youth Worker.