Nallely Castro Montoya 

In being able to understand myself, I learned that I needed to be more empathetic towards myself. You know, I was so caught up in pleasing other people, helping other people, trying to understand others, but I wasn't really understanding myself. I kind of put myself last. And so, giving yourself empathy is really about placing yourself first because there's no way I was able to really support other people if I wasn't able to support myself first.

Paul Meunier 

Hello, I'm Paul Meunier, the executive director of the Youth Intervention Programs Association. And I'm a youth worker at heart. How lucky am I, I have the privilege to meet youth workers from around the globe and learn their stories and share them with the entire world. I'm glad you're listening. Because together we'll learn how their life experiences shape their youth work. As you listen, I encourage you to consider how your experiences shape what you have to offer young people. Welcome to this edition of The Passionate Youth Worker. Hi, everybody. For this episode, we're joined by Nallely Castro Montoya from Minnesota, here in the United States. She is the prevention and social change manager at Esperanza United. She is a caring and empathetic supporter of young people, and has learned to provide herself the same sense of empathy over time. Nallely, thanks for being a guest on The Passionate Youth Worker.

Nallely Castro Montoya 

Thank you for having me here.

Paul Meunier 

It's wonderful that you are a guest. And I am so excited to learn more about you. So let's dive right in. As we were getting to know each other, and sharing stories a little bit with each other, you mentioned that someone once told you that you listen with your heart. And I thought that was really interesting. And I'm just wondering to you, what does that mean to listen with your heart?

Nallely Castro Montoya 

For me listening with your heart means listening to understand the other person, being intentional about listening to their needs, to what they want from you. But I think most importantly, is listening with empathy. For me that's listening with your heart.

Paul Meunier 

What does that mean? Does it mean that you let go of what's important to you and focus on what's important to other people? Or can you describe that a little further, like listening with empathy, what does that mean?

Nallely Castro Montoya 

I think it's being open-minded. It's understanding the other person's story, what they're trying to tell you, what they want. I think oftentimes we get really excited about our thoughts, and trying to connect with the person, when really the other person just wants us to listen. And so, I feel like sometimes we listen with sympathy. And I think there's a difference. And then when you listen with empathy, you're connecting with each other's emotions, you're connecting with the story without really changing the focus on the other person. You're really there and you're present with a person instead of being in your head like most people can be. Yeah, I mean, I have done that too, before. But I think it's so easy to get caught up in your thoughts and what you want to say instead of just being present with that person at the moment.

Paul Meunier 

That really helps define it. Thank you for clarifying because I totally get what you mean now. And the difference between listening with sympathy and listening with empathy I think is a real important distinction. And it's almost instinctive to listen with sympathy and just feel bad or sorry for somebody. But that isn't really what people need, right? And young people don't need that. Why, in your mind, is listening with sympathy falling short as a youth worker?

Nallely Castro Montoya 

I think when you listen with sympathy it kind of goes back to you're forcing yourself to connect to the person. And you are trying to connect through your stories, through your experiences, which sometimes it's great and it's needed. But I think with listening with empathy, you're trying to do that human to human connection, versus trying to get excited to tell your story. And so, I think that connection, it's what's needed, sometimes more than often. But when you listen with sympathy, I think you take the focus on the connection and you're focusing more on yourself than anything.

Paul Meunier 

Yeah, that makes sense and being able to to drop your own biases and drop your own perceptions and just listen to what they really mean and make that connection that you're talking about is really the key to good youth work or any kind of human services work is to connect. And that is definitely done through empathy. And I gotta believe that you're very good at that. The times that we've met, I've really felt that that comes through. And I know that you moved from Mexico to Minnesota. When you were really young your parents moved up here. And they left a lot behind. Everything that they knew. They came here to find a better life for themselves and for their family. Can you talk a little bit about your parents and their move and their bravery to kind of uplift everything and come here?

Nallely Castro Montoya 

Yeah, my father came to the United States through the Braceros program. So, he did a lot of foreign working when he got here to the United States. We came years after. And so, for the longest we were undocumented. It was definitely a hard decision to make. And my mom waited, she waited longer to come to the United States because she wanted to make sure that we all came together, and that nobody gets left behind. So, I didn't grow up knowing most of my grandparents, growing up with them. That was definitely a big sacrifice that they had to make leaving a lot of family members behind. And working hard. I think it's also very difficult to understand the culture, understand systems. So, that's something that we kind of had to navigate together. Sometimes myself alone, sometimes them alone, but it's definitely a challenge. And I think as I became older, and now that I have a kid, I definitely understand them a lot better. And I understand how hard it was for us to question some things, you know. So, for example, my little brother was born here. So, he got to go to Mexico every summer. And we always complained, we were like, why can't we go. And of course, we didn't understand that at the moment. But now that we're older, I think about how painful that was for my mom to even hear that only one of her children at the time could go to Mexico, but the other three had to stay behind. And so, I am thankful for all their sacrifices. And I think that's something that definitely motivates me to continue doing better.

Paul Meunier 

That's a great story. And I didn't even realize that they were separated for a while, that your dad came here first and left his children and his wife behind to come and get established. And that takes such enormous bravery. And I think vision to see how the world can be a better place. And then here's what you've done with it, you have two bachelor's degrees, a master's degree. So, they must be extremely proud of your success and your ability to take this opportunity and just to absolutely run with it.

Nallely Castro Montoya 

I mean, they are. And I think they're really proud of all of us. Like I said, it's difficult to navigate the system. So, when your parents don't know. Which reminds me of my first day of the first week of school, going to the U of M, I remember walking in, we had like an orientation. And of course, all the white students walked in with their parents. But I walked in by myself because I didn't really understand that we were supposed to bring our parents. And you know, it was optional, listed as optional. And so then I'm like, Okay, well, my parents don't have to come. So, my brother dropped me off because of course, he knew the U of M, that's where he went to school too. But when I walked in, I felt really lonely. And I remember looking around to see if there was somebody familiar. And there was another person of color sitting at the table by herself. And so, in my discomfort, I'm like, Well, I want to be comfortable. And I went and I approached her and I'm like, you know, can I sit here? And she's like, Yeah, of course. And she's like, did your parents just drop you off too? And I'm like, Yeah, did yours? And she's like, Yeah, and we've had this cultural connection. And so, we are so grateful to where we were at, but it was definitely still a challenge for our parents to not understand some of the culture. Like I said, I'm so grateful for everything they've done, but I've definitely learned a lot. And I think what they taught me the most is that we need to make ourselves better so that each generation can gain the resources and have the support that we didn't have.

Paul Meunier 

That's a wonderful story and it's so impressive that you and your siblings have just done so well for yourself. And now are giving back to the community at large, but your own community too, all Latinas and other people that you are helping. And those stories about just really not understanding the culture. I think as a person who comes from privilege I don't know what that's like but I gotta believe those situations are really difficult, and you face them probably on a very regular basis. So, all those things that you've learned about the different cultures and things, what has surprised you the most about the United States and what your parents have? Is there something that just really strikes you as different from the options that they had, to the options you had?

Nallely Castro Montoya 

I think what I appreciate is all the resources, the unity of the community to really support one another. I think that's something that we definitely received here in Minnesota. From the donations of clothes and beds to, you know, walking down the street and being able to pick from the neighbor's pear tree. So, I think that support is continuous. And I think that's something that I'm grateful for. I think that's something that I have learned growing up, and that I very much appreciate and is close to my heart. It's that sense of community that I've always grown up with. You know, it's hard to find. But I think once you find it, it will help you achieve many things, because there's a lot of great leaders out there that are willing to support you and your loved ones. And I have definitely grown up with that.

Paul Meunier 

Yeah, I can see that. And it's great to hear that those resources, and those opportunities are there. But I also know that in your personal situation, your family is very close and you're very tight knit group of people and the elders play an important part and they tell their stories and things like that. That cohesiveness as you had as a family must have been really instrumental in keeping the whole thing together and keeping everything on track was. Wouldn't you say that's true?

Nallely Castro Montoya 

Definitely. I think my parents taught me to always be supportive, and help others along the way with of course, with what you're capable of. You know, sometimes we're capable of helping, and sometimes we're not, and that's okay. I think it's what I learned, it's that sometimes it's okay if you can't help. And I think something that they definitely taught me is that you support or you help somebody without expecting anything in return. And in the future, that support or help will be repaid back either through that person that you supported or through somebody else. But I think we're definitely always there for each other, in the good and the bad. And sometimes we can have a little bit of distance because of where we live, or because we get so busy with like work and other things. But you know, we always come back and are supportive you know. Like this next weekend is my father's 60th birthday. He won't watch this so he doesn't know we're throwing him a surprise party. But you know, those things that unite us, it's the gathering and being together. It's what keeps us strong.

Paul Meunier 

That's great that despite all the obstacles and things you faced, your family just stayed so tight, and it made all of this stuff possible for you to be able to do what you're doing now. And your family sounds like wonderful people. And you must be very proud of all of them for their bravery and their willingness to turn their worlds upside down to find a better way and a better place for you and your siblings. Hard to believe we're halfway through the interview already. So, we have to take a short break. But when we come back, I have a lot more questions to ask you about youth work in particular. So, we'll be right back.

Jade Schleif 

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Paul Meunier 

Nallely, right before the break, I was mentioning that I have questions about youth work and things that you've learned along the way. But I have one question before that,

Nallely Castro Montoya 

Yes.

Paul Meunier 

In the intro, I mentioned that you learn to give yourself empathy over time. You give so much empathy to other people, you talked about the importance of listening with empathy. But how have you learned to give yourself empathy and why is that important?

Nallely Castro Montoya 

For me, I think empathy towards yourself is important in really knowing yourself. And I think that goes a long way when you're trying to be supportive towards others, and be supportive for yourself. So, I think there was a lot of challenges growing up in my life. And in late high school, I was connected to what's now Esperanza United. And so, I joined as a, as a youth participant. I think there I was given the space that I wasn't given elsewhere as a youth. And it was a space that I needed. Where I could explore who I am, explore my identity. And through the learning  I was able to understand some of the things that occurred to me as a youth. And things started to make sense, like my reaction to things, my thought process. And so, slowly throughout the years, and even going into college, and you know, one of my majors being Chicano Latino Studies, even more there, I learned about who I was and who I wanted to be. And I think through the process, in being able to understand myself, I learned that I needed to be more empathetic towards myself. You know, I was so caught up in pleasing other people, helping other people, trying to understand others, but I wasn't really understanding myself. I kind of put myself last. And so, giving yourself empathy is really about placing yourself first because there's no way I was able to really support other people if I wasn't able to support myself first, understand my thought process, understand why I reacted to certain things the way I did. And I think that helped me along with my work, too, because then it goes back into reevaluating your values, and who you are as a whole. So, I think through this journey, I've definitely given myself more empathy. I am very a lot more clear with what I want, what I need. And you know, taking care of myself really. And that's helped with the burnout too sometimes. You know the work can be hard. But when you are able to know what you're okay with and what you're not, you're able to make decisions for your life. For example, when I got sick this past week, I was really like, I feel better, I should go back to work. But giving yourself empathy, it's like, no, I need to rest another day. I have the PTO to rest. And I need to think about myself right now. So, even those small things, you know, listen to your body, listen to your emotions, and what you're feeling.

Paul Meunier 

Great way to approach life and to do self-care, provide yourself empathy. And it seems like it's working pretty well for you. You talk about seeing so much beauty in others. And I think you can't do that if you're not taking care of yourself first. You have to be focused on your own well-being to see the beauty in other people otherwise you're still focused on yourself. Do you find it hard to always see the positives in young people when you're working with them or is it just something that comes pretty easy to you? You know, they give you a lot of noise, they give you a lot of reasons to be frustrated and angry sometimes but you see the beauty in them. How do you do that and is it hard?

Nallely Castro Montoya 

I mean, it's definitely hard. I think it's hard when a person isn't open-minded, it's hard when you're fully there understanding the other person but they're not understanding you. So, I think those are times when I need to take a step back and say, Where are we going with this? How do I fix myself, for lack of better words, to really address the needs of the other person, to listen to them? You know, everyone's different. And sometimes when I'm having a hard time with another person, I evaluate the situation and really think, what is it about them that isn't letting us move forward? And sometimes that can be triggers within our own life that you know, isn't making us really understand that person or be present like I said, or listen with empathy, listening with your heart. So, it is hard but I I do try to see the beauty in everybody because I don't know what their experiences were. I don't know what they've gone through. But what I do know is that they've been resilient. They've been strong enough to be where they're at right now. And so, how do we take those strengths and kind of run with it? Because everybody is beautiful, and everybody has the ability to accomplish a lot. In your mind, Nallely, what is the most crucial trait that someone needs to have to be a really good youth worker? There is a lot. I think being transparent, I mean, youth will see right through you, and so being authentic, and with that as the intro to who you are. But you know, most importantly, it's having fun. Youth are young, and whatever age we are as youth workers, you know, everybody has that youth in them. You know, we all have the ability to have fun. And so I think making things fun, being transparent, being honest, are all qualities that are definitely needed as a youth worker or working with youth.

Paul Meunier 

Yeah.

Nallely Castro Montoya 

Of course, all the other values of being respectful. But I think transparency, being authentic, and having fun, are my top three.

Paul Meunier 

Yeah, well, that makes sense. And I think those are all super important traits. We learn a lot from working with young people. Sometimes they don't let us not learn. They question, make us challenge ourselves, and make us understand and think about why did we do what we did. But I'm wondering over your years, I know you've been doing youth work for I think its around eight years, or maybe more than that, but what have you learned about yourself from young people?

Nallely Castro Montoya 

I have learned that they really try and force me to be an extroverted person, which I am not.

Paul Meunier 

Oh, interesting.

Nallely Castro Montoya 

 But I'd say that my son does the same thing for me, it makes me extroverted. But I've learned that every voice is important. And I learned that there's a lot that we could learn from youth, there's a lot that we can also teach our youth. But it's a like a mutual relationship where we learn but we also teach, and they also learn but they're also teaching us. And so I think through my work with youth, it's they have so much to share, they have so much knowledge, and at the end of the day, they are our future. And so, sometimes they just need a guiding hand. And, you know, we were youth once too so instead of judging, sometimes we need to reflect on who we were as youth and how challenging things were. And really, really understanding who they are so that we can best support them. But I think most importantly, is that their voice matters. And that it's very important in the work that we do.

Paul Meunier 

Nallely, as we've been talking, I've been thinking so much about your answers. And you seem so self-reflective. Talking about giving yourself empathy. That's kind of a deep concept. And have you always been self-reflective, always looking at your situation, going inward and trying to resolve things. I imagine as an introvert, that's a big part of what you do. But have you always been self-reflective?

Nallely Castro Montoya 

No.

Paul Meunier 

Oh.

Nallely Castro Montoya 

I mean, to some point, yes, I think we all self-reflect always. But I think as I started to understand the world, and my communities, and my family, I think I allowed myself to be more self-reflective. And one of the biggest reasons for that is to give myself empathy, and to fully understand what's going on and how I want to react to it, how I should react to it. And to reflect to know when I need to step back. Maybe like, you know, for example, have somebody else support in a situation. But I think it's something that it takes time to learn. We're always going to be self-reflective, but I think to be self-reflective so that you can be empathetic toward yourself is something that is like a lifelong learning thing. You know, because there's different challenges that are gonna come through our way. I have yet to know what challenges are going to be thrown at me in the future. But I think it takes time. Definitely.

Paul Meunier 

It does. And I think being self-reflective takes a lot of courage too, right? And I think that's why people who get into this work are really courageous people because to get good at this you have to be self-reflective. You have to examine yourself because young people will not let you not do that, to use a double negative. But you just don't have a choice to be anything but self-reflective. And I wish more people were good at it. But it does take skill, and it takes time to get good at it. And it takes courage to get good at it. Nallely, I know, the best compliment someone can give you is that you're doing a good job, you like to hear that. And I would like to say, I think you're doing a phenomenal job. I understand how much value you give to the people that you work with and the young people. I can imagine the support they must feel from you, especially knowing that they can relate with you because you've gone through a lot of the stuff that some of the recent immigrants have gone through, you know, getting accustomed to new cultures and adapting to new things. You can really connect with them on that. So, you are doing a good job. And you've done a great job with the podcast. So, I just want to compliment you and say great job in all you're doing.

Nallely Castro Montoya 

Thank you. It's very simple words. But I think, you know, we get caught up with life, we get caught up with everything that's going on that sometimes you just kind of need to slow down. And it's great to be complimented here and there. I think especially whoever's listening, whoever is like that elder figure in their family, we get busy worrying about other people that sometimes people forget to tell us that we're doing a great job. And so, I'm always grateful when people tell me I'm doing a great job. Of course, I'm always grateful for constructive feedback, too. I take that very well. I don't know if it's because I grew up with my three brothers but I take it well, too. But you know, I feel like it just telling someone they're doing a good job kind of forces you to stop and evaluate everything that you've done and feel grateful for everything because we get caught up with everything. And so yeah, thank you.

Paul Meunier 

You bet. It's been wonderful getting to know you, thank you for being a guest on the podcast. But before we go, I would like to ask you what words of wisdom or inspiration would you like to leave with the listeners, Nallely?

Nallely Castro Montoya 

I would say have fun, doing what you love, whether that's working with youth or in your own personal life. And remember that it just takes one person to create change and that can be change within your community or change within yourself.

Paul Meunier 

If you would like to share your passion for youth work, we'd love to spotlight you as a guest. If you have feedback about the show, please let us know. Just visit training.yipa.org That's training.yipa.org and click on the podcast tab. This podcast is made possible in part due to a generous contribution from M Health Fairview. I'm your host Paul Meunier. Thanks for listening to The Passionate Youth Worker.