Barbara Van Deinse 

I have this innate sense of justice, and an unrelenting passion for equality. I've experienced discrimination in all kinds of environments, and I don't like it. And I know how it feels. I know that it's not right. So anything that I can do to work toward eliminating those systems, to expanding understanding, acceptance, equality, equity, fairness, justice, that's what I'm about.

Paul Meunier 

Hello, I'm Paul Meunier, the executive director of the Youth Intervention Programs Association. And I'm a youth worker at heart. How lucky am I, I have the privilege to meet youth workers from around the globe and learn their stories and share them with the entire world. I'm glad you're listening because together we'll learn how their life experiences shape their youth work. As you listen, I encourage you to consider how your experiences shape what you have to offer young people. Welcome to this edition of The Passionate Youth Worker. Hi, everybody. For this episode, we've shaken things up a bit. As you likely know, on The Passionate Youth Worker we tell stories about youth workers’ lives and discover what they bring to the field that's unique to them. It should surprise no one familiar with YIPA that our team is comprised of dedicated and inspirational individuals. I think it's time that we give them a chance to tell their stories, too. So, for this episode, our guest is Barbara Van Deinse, YIPA's, Operations Director. Barbara makes everything at YIPA better. She's a coach, mentor, advisor and she's a friend to the YIPA team and our members too. I'm excited to introduce her to you, the listeners of the podcast. Barbara, thanks for being a guest on the show.

Barbara Van Deinse 

Thank you, Paul. That was a lovely introduction. I really appreciate it. Happy to be here.

Paul Meunier 

Thanks. It's gonna be really fun to interview you, Barbara. We've worked together for a long time but we've never really talked about your story in detail. So, I'm eager to learn more about you and, and how you see the world. So, you ready to get started?

Barbara Van Deinse 

I am.

Paul Meunier 

Great. Barbara, you've been working with the YIPA now for about seven years. And I don't think you ever thought you were going to be working in the field of youth work.

Barbara Van Deinse 

No.

Paul Meunier 

Can you just quickly tell a little bit about how you ended up being a YIPA team member and being in the youth work field?

Barbara Van Deinse 

Absolutely. I do remember it like it was yesterday. It was because it was such a special moment, really. I read the job posting and it seemed to just have my name written all over it. I can't remember the words of it. But I remember the feeling of it was this is where you belong. And I really just told myself, you have to get this job, this is what you've been working for! So, what led up to that I had a long happy career in the corporate world, corporate sales and management. And that had its own rewards. I made great money, I got incentives, trips, trophies, bonuses. So, all that was good. And I enjoyed the management piece of it because I was able to coach, as you mentioned that's something that I found that I love, and helping other people develop. But I wasn't as satisfied with you know, it's just selling things. It's not enriching life so much. And I wanted something that felt like it had more of a contribution to the world, like it had more meaning. And I'm not saying this in a way to demean corporate work. I was grateful for my time. But I wanted something giving back in a bigger way. So, I started looking. I started looking for that and wanted it to still have that piece of helping to develop people because that's what made my heart sing. That's what I got joy from in the job, was helping people who reported to me find their own path and grow and succeed. So, that's what the YIPA position looked like to me. I thought, you know, I'm not a youth worker. I don't know that they'll have me but I bring a lot of skills that are transferable and holy cow, it's a whole community of people who are trying to do the thing that I'm about. You know, make a difference. So, that's the story. That's how I got here seven years ago today.

Paul Meunier 

Hard to believe it's your anniversary today and the irony that we're recording this on your seven-year anniversary.

Barbara Van Deinse 

 Synchronicity.

Paul Meunier 

There you go. Yeah, I remember when you applied and when you interviewed and I was just thinking somehow we have to find a spot for Barbara, because we knew that you were gifted in so many things in terms of helping the team get better, building our processes, all those kinds of things. You brought so much to the team that's really helped us. And I'm wondering, you know, you talked about that you like helping other people, you get a lot of satisfaction in seeing other people succeed which is a trait that most youth workers have. So, you inherently have that part, Barbara. You had that in you. But where did you get that from? Is that from your family environment or did you learn that later in life or where did you get this desire and this thrill of helping people do well?

Barbara Van Deinse 

Yeah, I think it wasn't, at first a desire, it was a responsibility. I'm the oldest daughter in a family of nine children. So, I had a lot of babysitting and caretaking to do with my younger siblings. And I just enjoyed helping them when I could, I enjoyed kind of looking out for them and a little bit of a protector from time to time and encouraging them, uplifting them, because it wasn't always the most positive family environment. It was kind of heavy on the discipline and absent of shows of affection. So, I don't know, I can't say how I developed it into this passion. But I know it always made me feel good to be helping. So, I tried to reproduce that feeling in everything that I did going forward, tried to look for that feeling.

Paul Meunier 

Well, that makes perfect sense. I wonder if it was actually kind of a response to the fact that when you were younger, you didn't have that kind of encouragement or that positive environment around you. There's, I know, you and I have talked a little bit about your story and it wasn't always so positive. Matter of fact it was kind of negative most of the time,

Barbara Van Deinse 

 Right, yeah, not kinda. It was.

Paul Meunier 

Well I didn't want to put words in your mouth. But it just seems like a reaction, like you said, I'm going to do things different. I'm going to try to rise above that and be a better person or set a better example or something like that. Would you say that was part of it, too?

Barbara Van Deinse 

Yeah, absolutely. Because for me, I knew that I didn't deserve negative things that were coming my way. I hadn't done something to earn that particular punishment or blame or shame. I hadn't done something. And so when it occurred to me, it was like going inside and asking, you know, well, what did I do? I didn't. So, I didn't let it diminish me, right. In fact, I just committed myself to staying on my good path, I was still going to do me in the best way that I could, even if slings and arrows came my way. So yeah, it was just a turning decision, I think a choice, I'll call it, that I won't become what I'm being accused of being.

Paul Meunier 

It's a great example of how we have the ability to frame our behaviors and our reaction to the world around us. We don't have to be cast in stone. And our family environment doesn't necessarily always have to define who we are. And you're a wonderful example of that. Because you have come out of the end of the developmental years, just the opposite of what it seems like your family was like. You're so positive, and you're so helpful to people. And I'm just grateful that you're part of the team and you're part of the youth-serving community because you bring a skill set that a lot of people who are youth workers don't have. We didn't come from the corporate world and live in that environment of structure and processes and standards and legalities and all those kinds of things. What have you found to be similar about the corporate world and the youth work field and what is really different about that?

Barbara Van Deinse 

Similar, everybody has a mission, right? Everybody's got goals, and they're all striving toward that and working to get buy in from everyone associated. So, whether it's your company or your department or your section or your nonprofit, everyone's working to get buy in of all the folks there so that you're all moving in the same direction for the same purpose. That's the similarity. Difference is, from my experience, not speaking for everyone, I think that in my experience corporations cared more about the bottom line than the actual people. I do believe there's a shift occurring. I hope it continues. Because people are the corporation, right? The corporation doesn't exist without people. So, I've seen more of a caring for people kind of mentality or approach, philosophy to the nonprofit world. And I very much appreciate that particular difference. I wish the pay was more similar because honestly, in lots of ways the work is so much more difficult, to avoid burnout to stay with it in difficult times. It's like teachers, you know, they're severely underpaid, and they're doing our most important work. Right? So, I wish that was more similar but I know all the reasons it's not. Yeah, we just keep working to improve it.

Paul Meunier 

You are a youth worker at heart, there's no doubt about it. You have such a lens on equality. And such a lens on fairness. And the difference between right and wrong is so crystal clear to you. And it just never seems to waver. That I think is true in a lot of youth workers, but one of the ways I think you're different than the typical youth worker is that you're so direct in your communication. I mean that not in a negative sort of way. But it's really different. People in the human services industry tend to tap dance around difficult issues sometimes and have a difficult time being just real direct in saying what they need to say. But you just speak your mind so clearly. And I'm wondering, have you found that to be different? Is that different than the business world?

Barbara Van Deinse 

No, I took some communication training. And there's a particular communication or behavioral model called the DISC model, and that there's four quadrants that people fall into typically. And so, the quadrant that I'm in, the direct thinkers and speakers, is only about 10% of the population. So, it's not different in the corporate world, but you would tend to see more of the 10% in the corporate world. They're drawn to that, they're driven for that sort of achievement, more than I've found, that I personally have encountered in the nonprofit world so far. The ones in the nonprofit world tend to be the largest percentage of the population, they're that more stable, steady, family oriented, caring type of individual, not corporate climbers, you know, not striving in that sort of a way, but definitely giving and nurturing and supporting. There's a similarity because that's a broad view of people. And people work in both of those realms. So...

Paul Meunier 

Got it. You know, we're almost at a point well we are at a point where we need to take a short break. But when we come back, I would like to ask you some of the things you've learned about yourself, and some of the things that you've acquired along the way now that you're in the youth work industry. So, we'll be right back after this short break.

Jade Schleif 

No matter how you support our young people, The Professional Youth Worker powered by YIPA has your training and learning needs covered. Visit training.yipa.org. That's training.yipa.org to see for yourself, and then join the 1000s of youth workers around the globe, who learn from our easy to access exceptional trainings. From our blogs to our podcast, The Professional Youth Worker is your go-to resource for tools to help you keep going, keep learning, and keep growing. Members enjoy free unlimited access to Live Online and On-Demand trainings, and a preferred discount pricing for our one-of-a kind-certificate course. Annual memberships are ridiculously affordable for individuals and organizations. Visit training.yipa.org today to learn more. That's training.yipa.org.

Paul Meunier 

Barbara, right before the break, I was saying I'd like to tap your brain a little bit about what you've learned in the seven years that you've now been a youth worker. And I say that with a bunch of pride because it's wonderful to have you with us. What do you think is the most valuable lesson you've learned in your seven years of working in the field of youth work?

Barbara Van Deinse 

The most valuable lesson... there are many, but most valuable is that I have learned to appreciate what it takes for a person to be a youth worker. I mean, I don't exaggerate when I say that I am in awe of people who do this work. Yeah, I mean, I stand in awe of the challenges that they face every day. The difficulties of working with people, I am aware of that, but working with young people in particular and not you know, jumping into a kind of a parenting role with them, just being a support to them, just being there for them. That's a remarkable, remarkable gift. So, what I have learned is that youth workers, people who do work with young people are, in my opinion, the most amazing people.

Paul Meunier 

Barbara, I share that sentiment. I consider myself so lucky to be working on behalf of people who day in and day out, are working directly with young people and facing some of those challenges that you've described. Sometimes these life situations of these young people are really difficult, right? And it can be incredibly hard to stay positive and stay hopeful. But we see them do it all the time. Right? We talk to them, we see the trainers, we have our members we talk to all the time. They are amazing people,

Barbara Van Deinse 

Right. The most amazing people and so many of them that I've talked to feel like friends, right? They're just kind, they're giving, they're personable. They're fun, right. It's so great to work in such a committed community. And I'll just put it that way. Yeah.

Paul Meunier 

Yeah, it is great. We are lucky. And we say that all the time, don't we, Barbara.

Barbara Van Deinse 

We do!

Paul Meunier 

We talk about how lucky we are to be doing what we're doing and supporting these wonderful people. Now that you've been doing it for a while, I'm wondering if there's one thing you could change about the field of youth work? You've been exposed to quite a bit with all our different members, the different types, all the ways from mentoring programs, to police departments, to mental health agencies. If you're Queen Barbara for the day, and you had a magic wand and you could change things, what would you do?

Barbara Van Deinse 

Honestly, I would have people understand the value of the service and the people who perform the service. I think it's vastly misunderstood or just not in people's consciousness. And I think if it were, it would be adequately funded, it would have awesome benefits and living wage. And it would just be like, the greatest gift to ourselves, if we would acknowledge the value of this service.

Paul Meunier 

I agree. If you think about the economic and social value that youth workers provide, and what that means to our communities, what that means to our economy, what that means to our public safety, what that means to just our innovation as a society, our willingness to produce people that have wonderful skills and allow them to develop that. It would just change everything, don't you think?

Barbara Van Deinse 

Absolutely. And the ripple effect of it. I mean, so if you're the youth worker, and you're making a difference, you're breaking a pattern or something that's wrong, you're interrupting that trajectory, and then that person goes on and succeeds. Think of that benefit of that. I mean, they don't have to be a youth worker when they go on to have that kind of impact. But that's the impact that youth workers have. And so yeah, I just think it's so far reaching when you really consider it.

Paul Meunier 

You've been doing this for seven years. And I'm thinking, what do you now know that you wish you knew when you started seven years ago, that would just help propel you into your deeper understanding or your ability to help others?

Barbara Van Deinse 

Yeah, I know that you have spoken to me, you see it differently than I do. But my answer to it is, I wish that I had had direct youth service experience. It took me longer to get myself into the shoes of a youth worker, so to speak, because I didn't have their direct experience to relate to. Definitely, they had my utmost respect and admiration from the get go. But to really get a sense of, it wasn't till I was visiting programs and really interacting with youth workers that I got into those shoes. You know, that seemed to be my missing piece, from my point of view. But once I locked in on that, you know, it was easy then to translate Okay, I know how to help. Okay, I know what they need, in a way. I'm not trying to say I know what they need, but I know how to relate to the kinds of things that they need, and I know how to help supply that, make that available. And I think YIPA does that on a very large scale.

Paul Meunier 

It goes to show that the youth work field needs all kinds of personalities and all kinds of skill sets in order for it to function. In order to help young people not everybody has to be a direct service provider.

Barbara Van Deinse 

Right. Yeah.

Paul Meunier 

We need people that have different skill sets that could be in accounting or fundraising or marketing or whatever that is that helps an organization function at its peak, ultimately is what's going to help young people. And I think that your ability to adapt to this new realm of the industry or culture that you're in has really been phenomenal. You have brought so many gifts to the team and helped YIPA move forward with building processes and standards. And all those things are so critical to helping young people. So, even though you've never done direct youth work, you are as much of a youth worker as anybody I've ever met. And I've done this forever!

Barbara Van Deinse 

By that's a high compliment. Thank you.

Paul Meunier 

Because you care so deeply for young people, and you care so deeply for just people in general. And that's the the main attribute that people have to have. How would you define success in your work today, Barbara? How do you know you've done a good job?

Barbara Van Deinse 

I know I've done a good job, when other people succeed, when other people achieve something they're working toward, and I've had a hand in it. When I hear about a place where someone might have been struggling or trying to make progress and, and I was able to help give insight or advice or pointers or anything that I've done. It isn't that I do it for me. It's the reward of seeing others take off and run with it. Right. Seeing that play out in real time is what gives me my greatest satisfaction. Knowing even if I don't get that feedback directly, I know that what I do makes a difference.

Paul Meunier 

What do you think about you, Barbara, that is unique, is your best attribute you bring to your work and bring to the YIPA team and bring to the youth work field? What are you most proud of that you can contribute?

Barbara Van Deinse 

Oh, that is a difficult question to answer. Because I like everything about me. And

Paul Meunier 

I know you said that funny, but that's true.

Barbara Van Deinse 

I know I do. I'm proud of me. I like my stuff.

Paul Meunier 

That's cool.

Barbara Van Deinse 

So yeah, so I think one really important thing is I have this innate, it feels to me like an innate sense of justice, and an unrelenting passion for equality. You know, I've experienced some forms of discrimination. As a gay person, as a woman, as a previously kind of overweight person. I've experienced discrimination in all kinds of environments, and I don't like it. And I know how it feels, I know that it's not right. So, anything that I can do to work toward eliminating those systems, to expanding understanding, acceptance, equality, equity, fairness, justice, that's what I'm about. I think that is a real strength that I personally have that I'm really very proud of. And keep working to improve on.

Paul Meunier 

What you just said, improve on things, that was going to lead right into my next question because you do seem so comfortable with who you are, and so comfortable in your skin. That is one of, I believe, your greatest attributes that you bring to the human race, so to speak. But I know that you're always looking to improve and get better and always adapting. And I'm wondering, because you're such a person that's committed to self-growth and continuous learning what is one thing you're working on right now, Barbara, to make yourself better?  Ooooh! Just one.

Barbara Van Deinse 

Just one.. Okay. Okay. Yeah, just one that I'm working on right now is about oh I don't know how to phrase it exactly. So, there's currently an overabundance of bad news all around us. And I can be quite affected by this kind of pain-inducing, trauma triggering, you know, the cruelty of people right now in particular, and the unfairness. To be honest, the racism, the just the hatred, I can fall into a darker place because of that. And so right now, I'm working on limiting my exposure, because I don't function well if I don't stay positive, right. And it would be pretty easy. It's just like an avalanche covering you. It would be easy to be covered right now. And so, what I work on right now is not being unaware because I can't close my eyes, right. I can't look away; I have to see. But I don't have to be drowned by it, covered, consumed by it. So, I’m working on that. That takes some work. And the way that I work on it is oftentimes reading poetry, seeking out inspirational people and ideas. So, a lot of TED talks are good way to go. People that uplift. I seek them out for that reason to counteract all the other kinds of people stories that I see too much of.

Paul Meunier 

Yeah, well, those are wonderful traits to work on. And so timely, because we are getting bombarded with bad news. And it's easy to see it everywhere you turn, and somehow we have to become better consumers of news. And that is a great trait that we all need to learn. And I think we could be so much kinder to each other, if we weren't just so bombarded with all the bad stuff. But now we got election season coming, Barbara, and the negative ads are all coming out. And it just keeps coming at us. And I just think youth workers have to face that when they're working with young people, because the young people are getting exposed to all this stuff, too.

Barbara Van Deinse 

Exactly. Right.

Paul Meunier 

Yeah. Well, Barbara, thank you for being a YIPA team member. I learn from you and I have grown as a result of being lucky enough to have you on the team. And I'm grateful for everything you do, including writing the show notes for the podcast. So, if you're a regular listener and you read the show notes, that's Barbara who writes them with her excellent writing skills. And I'm so grateful you decided to say yes, and be part of the YIPA team. And you do feel like you belong here. And we're grateful that you are. So, thank you for doing everything you do. And I'm so grateful that you decided to also be a guest and tell your story on the podcast.

Barbara Van Deinse 

Thanks for the opportunity both ways, Paul, really appreciate it. I'm honored to work with you and the YIPA community. It is the pleasure of my professional career. Yeah.

Paul Meunier 

That is cool. Before we go, Barbara, I always like to give the guests the last word as you know, because you listen to every one.

Barbara Van Deinse 

I do.

Paul Meunier 

But what words of wisdom or inspiration would you like to leave with our listeners?

Barbara Van Deinse 

Well, I have two thoughts, a longer thought and a short short thought that I want to share in terms of that inspiration. First one, let go and grow. I think of this in two ways. First, it reminds me personally to stay curious about what's working for me. And also, what I need to let go of when it's time to release, let go, move beyond, grow. Because I am motivated to, like you said, I'm always trying to be the best version of me that I can be. That gives me great pride. And I work at that. I try to let go of old habits, outdated ideas, negative self-talk. So, I do take action to revisit and revise those things. That's why I say let go and grow. The second way that I think about that idea of let go and grow is it's a more general reflection on the art of youth work. I think that youth workers stand in that space where young people are trying to figure out their own identities to find their own way in the world. So, there's this, you know, its youth development, there's a natural pulling away from parents a bit, there's a stretching of their wings, there's testing the increasing boundaries, their independence, and right there beside them is a youth worker that has been through it, too, and is willing to just kind of be a, I think of it as a bridge, in that space right? Their caring presence and steady encouragement really lets people know, it is okay to let go and grow. So, that's the two ways I think about that. My second great inspiration is go for a walk! Get outside, go for a walk. Notice everything beautiful, because there's a lot of it out there. Go for a walk.

Paul Meunier 

If you would like to share your passion for youth work, we'd love to spotlight you as a guest. If you have feedback about the show, please let us know. Just visit training.yipa.org That's training.yipa.org and click on the podcast tab. This podcast is made possible in part due to a generous contribution from M Health Fairview. I'm your host Paul Meunier. Thanks for listening to The Passionate Youth Worker.