Felix Martinez-Paz 

I want to be sure that youth, the men that I'm working with, they don't make the same mistake that I made, you know, growing up or in life. I want them to have an easier for them. But they really enjoy it. When once you're true to yourself, and you're clear and you're open to them. That create a huge bond between us. And they feel that they can trust you. And sometimes they can maybe tell you something that what they're going through, so you can provide them and better support them because men, we don't like to talk about our feelings or what we're going through. So, when you have that opportunity, you see that someone is opened up, you say you know what? Yeah, I'm going through the same thing that Felix is going through.

Paul Meunier 

Hello, I'm Paul Meunier, the executive director of the Youth Intervention Programs Association. And I'm a youth worker at heart. How lucky am I? I have the privilege to meet youth workers from around the globe and learn their stories and share them with the entire world. I'm glad you're listening because together we'll learn how their life experiences shape their youth work. As you listen, I encourage you to consider how your experiences shape what you have to offer young people. Welcome to this edition of The Passionate Youth Worker. Hi, everybody. For this episode, we're joined by Felix Martinez-Paz from Minnesota in the United States. Felix is the Engaging Men and Boys program specialist with Esperanza United. He shares his life experiences with other Latino males in hopes of helping them avoid some of the pitfalls he encountered in his personal development. Felix, thanks for being a guest on the podcast.

Felix Martinez-Paz 

Thank you so much, Paul. I'm super excited to be here to share a little bit of my experiences on my life. So I'm ready. Let's get started.

Paul Meunier 

Great. Let's do it. Felix, you were born in Puerto Rico. And then you moved to the Dominican Republic when you were around 16. When you got there, you found yourself getting into trouble in school, fights and things like that. Will you talk a little bit about what was going on in your world at that time that caused you to get in that kind of trouble?

Felix Martinez-Paz 

Well, thank you, Paul. Yes, I was actually 15 when I moved. So, it was on my birthday so I remember September 1st. So, it was very difficult. It was a moment when I felt I was out of control. When I set up control in moving to the Dominican Republic wasn't my choice, I had to leave my friends, the girlfriend, my partner around that time. It was very hard, you know, they put me in a situation where it was new. Language was the same, Spanish too. But I started having a lot of difficulties as a boy, as a man dealing with a lot of anger issues just because I was unhappy. Probably my parents even though they were always supportive they never had the chance to talk to me a little bit about what was going on, how was I feeling. So, it was very difficult. It made me get into a lot of trouble in school, I eventually got expelled out of that school not because of that school, not because of my grades, but just because of my behavior. So that's something that helped me learn a little bit also about the consequences, you know, so sometimes we don't realize it till we get to those situations. So, it teaches me a lot about consequences.

Paul Meunier 

That's great. And so how were they dealing with you at that time? So, you're getting in trouble. It didn't seem to stop. What were people trying to do to intervene with you at that time to get you to, I don't know, pay more attention or be more orderly in school? What were they doing that wasn't working?

Felix Martinez-Paz 

Yeah, this was a private school with nuns and priests. And you'll be surprised they got me to an office. But I never felt supported. I don't think they never tried to get to the root of what I was going through, why I was behaving that way. So, and that's something that helped me a lot through life to sometimes not assume on people. Sometimes when we see someone going through a hard time we think oh they probably have some anger issues. Probably had, you know, he is an angry person. And we don't realize that sometimes that person is going through a hard time, you know. So that made me to be more careful when I engage with men and when I see people maybe going through a hard time so I normally try to find out first why that person is behaving that way.

Paul Meunier 

Yeah. Well, that makes sense. Your world was definitely turned upside down and I know your parents moved there because your dad had a job opportunity. What were you parents doing at this time? Were they trying to be supportive or were they just kind of disconnected or was there anything they were doing that was helpful?

Felix Martinez-Paz 

Like many parents I think they tried to the best they could, you know, based on their knowledge as parents. I'm a father of two daughters so I cannot assume I know everything. But they probably thought by being there, it was enough for me at that moment. That in certain points, you could see that having mom and dad is important in order to feel supported. But you know, maybe because they thought, they have food, they have a shelter, they have the money to pay for my school, maybe they thought that was enough. And that's something else in life that I have learned. That money, it helps bring you some privilege, but it's not everything. I think sometimes sitting with your sons and daughters and having a conversation, you know, a deeper conversation is super, super important. And now as a father, I try to do the same with my daughters, you know, when we get to a point that my daughters, they're not behaving the way that they should I have conversations with them, and then explain to them why maybe I raised my voice, maybe why I behaved that way. But that shouldn't be an excuse, but try to be transparent with our child, our sons and daughters, and be sure they understand why, if they do something bad, why, why we're approaching them, why we want them to do better in life.

Paul Meunier 

And I definitely want to talk more about that and your work you do to share those experiences with other Latino males. And that whole machismo thing. And I'd like to talk about that a little bit more. But it sounds like your parents were doing the best they could, they were providing for you the best they could, but just things weren't quite clicking for you. And then to add more movement and different change in your world, then your family moved to the United States here in Minnesota when I believe you were like 19. That was another big change. How did that change go for you? Were things better in your world at the time or was it another just kind of turbulent time for you?

Felix Martinez-Paz 

I think it's still a little bit hard to obviously move to a different country. Now a country with a different language, you know, Spanish is my first language. So, learning English, that's something that you learned in school, but it wasn't the same, you know can have classes of French or any other language but once you move to that country, then you need to speak it. With a native person from that land it's totally different. But for me, it was still hard. Of course, it's pretty much start over again. That also made me... it was very hard to get roots in one place. So, leaving Puerto Rico, you know, it was really hard for me. Then leaving Dominican Republic was the same. I'm leaving friends and leaving a lot of passions that I had for music and school and everything. And it was hard because you don't feel that you don't belong to Puerto Rico, you don't belong to Dominican Republic. And, you know, I don't belong to the U.S. So, you try to when, for example, I think about family, I think where my family is. Doesn't need to be when I think of home, I don't need to necessarily think it's Puerto Rico or the Dominican Republic. Home is where my family is, where my loved one is. So, I've been learning that, you know, life can take you to different places. We need to catch and grab the best from each place. And make it your own. Embrace that, embrace culture and embrace life. I mean, there's so many positive things that I learned, amazing people that I met in the Dominican Republic, Puerto Rico and Minnesota, and get the best of them, you know,

Paul Meunier 

I give people so much credit who move to a new country and have to somehow adapt and adjust to so many new things, so many subtleties in the culture, and the language and all that kind of stuff. And I know that's a lot of the work you do right now is helping immigrant families and immigrant people. And some of them are documented, some of them are not documented and you just talked about how difficult that is. I give so many people credit who can do something like that. I think it takes more courage and guts than maybe I would have to find a better life and a better world. So, your parents, I want to talk about that a little bit more. So, they moved around a lot. Are they pretty content where they are now? Are they happy with life in the United States or are they longing to go back to their roots, Puerto Rico well, of course Puerto Rico's part of the United States, but are they the mainland I guess I'm talking about are they wanting to go back there? Or do you think that their content here now?

Felix Martinez-Paz 

Oh, one of the changes in our family was that they moved back to Puerto Rico. They're now in Puerto Rico. But you know, he was transferred back to Puerto Rico. So, he kept working with the same company he was working and of course they're content now because they're retired but also for them I'm totally sure it was easy, you know, move your whole family from one place to another try to find out schools, get new friends, because we all need some type of support, you know, social, family and etc. So, for them it was a lot harder too. It was probably harder because they felt that pressure especially in the society when we think about men that expectation, you know, you need to always be the provider, you need to have everything and my dad, you know, that's something that he did a lot. He was able to provide us with everything we need. But for me as a young boy, I always felt that I met, I need more time with him that he didn't probably gave me just because he was busy. You know, it's his role, he was the provider, just to protect the house, to be the one bringing the money and the bread. But that's it. So, I think I get a lot of my learnings of how to be a man from my friends at school, my neighborhood, from TV, and when we think about, you know, those examples of masculinity, they're probably not the healthiest one. So that's something that I work now with young boys to have those type of conversations.

Paul Meunier 

So, you don't have a background in youth work. You don't have a degree in psychology or social work. And what was your path into working with Esperanza? What did you do to land a job where now you're coaching and supporting young Latino males?

Felix Martinez-Paz 

Yeah, prior to this work, I worked as a HUD-approved financial counselor. So, I work with pre-purchase counseling, foreclosure counseling, etc. So, I was we're already working with community. And that's when I started connecting with the community, based in my experiences moving from one place to another. It provided me that space to connect with people that are new in this country and try to understand a little bit what they were going through. And providing support and resources to them. But when I think in my childhood, and this opportunity, working with a Esperanza United, it came from a question they asked me, you know, you want to help us facilitate, you know, conversations with men and boys about healthy masculinity, leadership, etc.? Something that was new for me, and I said, You know what, I want to give it a try. Why? Because I have two daughters. Having two daughters, and me being a man, it made me realize, you know, what, the world that we live, it really is not equal. Women don't have the same opportunities that men does you know. I want to be sure my daughters live in a world where men are more compassionate, they're more vulnerable, they're more open, and can provide spaces for women where they can be empowered, that they can have the same salaries, etc. So, those type of opportunities were are the ones that make me change and make me realize, you know, what, I want to do something not just for my community, but also for my daughters.

Paul Meunier 

Well, that's wonderful. And when you started doing this, when they offered this opportunity to you, and you said, Yeah, I'll give it a try. Did you know right away, this was something you were going to be good at, that you were going to develop a passion for or did it take time to evolve into that?

Felix Martinez-Paz 

Not at all. I think that's something I wasn't getting ready for what I was, you know, I wasn't ready for it. But it is a journey. As a man, it's a journey that I'm still learning. I've been doing this job now for close to five years. But it's been challenging. It's been challenging from any aspect. Me, as a father, having this learning and being surrounded with people, that they really encouraged me to be the best version of myself, that can help me to become a better man, a better role model. So, it wasn't easy. It's still not easy. But I think once we can see our experiences or like something positive, even the good memories and bad memories, when you learn to take the best of each space, each place that you are in helps you have that understanding, or an idea of what people are going through. So, when you're supporting youth, when you're supporting men and women in our community, is you need to understand your own privileges, your biases, and be able to give in that opportunity to them to hopefully not commit the same mistakes that we made. Hopefully have it easier for them. So, they don't need to be going everywhere. If not, they can go to one place that they can say, You know what I went through that, you know, these are some things that you can do. So, you can probably have better opportunities. So, you continue your education after high school, etc.

Paul Meunier 

I think you hit the nail on the head about what it takes to be a good youth worker when you talked about you need to understand yourself and you need to understand your biases. That takes a lot of self-reflection, a lot of courage, I think to recognize why did I say what I did or do what I did? Or have you always been a self-reflective person. Even when you were younger, did you kind of go into your head and ponder about your own existence and your own personal experiences, or did this evolve because you were doing this work now?

Felix Martinez-Paz 

You know what, that's an excellent question. And when I think about myself, it could come from many ways. You know, my dad was very strict. My dad, like I said he was the provider but he was I think he was really tough on us, you know. And back in the day, every time I made that mistake or something bad, it was fixed with the belt. So, I think he, he used that probably more than he should. That brought a lot of insecurities on me at the time of making decisions and stuff like that. But at the same time, it made me think also about, you know, the situation, why my dad is hitting me with the belt, you know, I don't think I deserve but I start thinking about that kind of stuff, it helped me a little bit in that aspect to have a better understanding. But to facilitate, to work with youth, to have a better understanding is that. Is have a different lens, when you look at life, when you look at people, but at the same time, you need to be true to yourself, you cannot lie to the youth that you're working on, or the adults because they can feel that when you're lying when you're not your true self, you know. So. I think creating trust is one of those keys when you're working with youth. I think you need to be open. And if you say you're gonna do something you need to do it.

Paul Meunier 

100%. Felix, we just need to take a short break. But when we come back, I'd like to ask you a little bit more about your dad, your experience as a parent and machismo-ism, being macho. So we'll be right back after this short break.

Jade Schleif 

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Paul Meunier 

And we're back with Felix and Felix right before the break, I was talking about digging into this whole machismo kind of concept. I know your dad was kind of strict on you. It seems like you've moved away from that a little bit with your daughters, you talk about caring for them and loving them. That seems a little deviation. How far have you moved from your cultural expectations of being machismo into where you are now? Or have you still hung on to machismo, but you just view it differently?

Felix Martinez-Paz 

You know what, amazing question. I've been trying to become a new man. There's a lot of things, learnings, that I got from my culture, how to be a man. Those expectations how to be a man but I don't agree with them anymore. Especially when you're a father of two daughters, you know, I want my daughters to understand that men are also vulnerable, that men also need to clean the house, men also need to vacuum the house and do all those chores that normally their roles are created for women. But when we understand that all these gender roles are created by this society, by us, you understand you say you know what, maybe I want to be, I wanna break that. So, my daughters, they see me cooking, I'm a terrible cooker by the way. But you know, I'm better with the grill doing breakfast, stuff like that I'm much better. But they see me doing all those, you know, chores, and normally they're not, they don't normally see men doing because I want them when they decide to have a partner that they can value that, that they respect that so they have more time eventually, after cooking, everybody wash the dishes so you have more time to watch TV, play board games, spend some time some quality time with the family. So, those are the type of things that I am now as a man, and through all this journey of how to become a better man that have been added into this. And maybe I didn't see it in my house with my dad. But now I try to do it so I can hopefully become a better father than my father was. And hopefully my daughters are gonna become better mothers, if they ever decide to have kids. That's not an expectation neither from us.

Paul Meunier 

It's a wonderful thing to see people grow into who they are and realize you don't have to be cast into a certain personality type. You can evolve yourself to be what you think is the best version of yourself. And it seems like that's what you're doing, as an example for your your family. And as an example for you to just continuously grow and learn and mature into just maybe a better human being. And I think that's incredible. And you are taking those skills and you're working with Latino males, many of them who are relatively new to this new culture and are probably carrying a lot of those machismo kind of attitudes with them. Do you find that's true? Are a lot of these young guys come coming in with that kind of really stereotypical gender roles that are prevalent?

Felix Martinez-Paz 

Absolutely, absolutely. This is the backpack that we're carrying, you know, day by day. All those expectations that we have from us, or responsibilities that comes to become a man. So, it's heavy, you know, when you carry all that all the time that you need to be the financial provider, you need to be the protector, you need to be this and that it's heavy, you know, and sometimes that doesn't allow us to be the best version of ourselves. So, we're carrying this mask of how a man is supposed to behave when in reality, it's not real, it's created by the society's expectations. There's no need for us to follow. And if we want to have safer communities, communities that there's more equity, we need to start sharing those roles in the house. So, when I leave the house, I don't need to tell my son, okay, you're the man of the house and take that power away from my daughter's saying why my brother is the man of the house when I'm older than him, you know. So, there's a lot of things that we learned even since we're little kids buying kitchens and dolls to our daughters. You're teaching them already what's gonna be their role in life. So. you're gonna cook, you're gonna take care of the babies. While on the other side, so boys we gave them more like toys that are more aggressive, like guns are more active sports, etc. So, you know, how we can teach, for example, my daughter's, that you know what, you can play with mud, you can go outside and play baseball, you know. And that's something that bring me a lot of problems sometimes with some of my friends. Because they say, you know, why you let your daughters play soccer, that's a sport for boys? So, there's still a lot of men with that type of mentality. So, through these conversations that we have with them, we start understanding where those expectations come from, and what we need to do in order to start breaking that cycle of unhealthy masculinity.

Paul Meunier 

You must kind of blow the minds of some of these young people when they first get an introduction to you, because you do have a lot of masculine characteristics about you. But then when you listen, you're really caring, and you're really compassionate. And what kind of response do you get from young people when you start saying these things to them when maybe they haven't heard it from other men in their life?

Felix Martinez-Paz 

Yeah, yeah, most of the time they haven't heard those stories before. And they really enjoy it, you know, they want you to talk a little bit more. I want to be sure the youth, the men that I'm working with they don't make the same mistakes that I made, you know, growing up or in life. I want them to have it easier for them. But they really enjoy it. When once you're true to yourself and you're clear, and you're open to them, that create a huge bond between us. And they feel that they can trust you. And sometimes they can maybe tell you something that what they're going through. So, you can provide them and better support them, because men, we don't like to talk about our feelings or what we're going through. So, when you have that opportunity, you see that someone is opened up, you say, You know what, yeah, I'm going through the same things that Felix is going through so, I feel more comfortable of sharing information like that. And my spaces that I create or circles, we have some norms in order to create that space, considered a safe space, so you can be yourself. So, you don't need to be embarrassed of talking about certain things. So, you can be you know, the best version of yourself.

Paul Meunier 

You must have learned a lot about yourself, working with young people and trying to wrestle with this idea of masculinity in a way that is new for a lot of people in your community. And that's one of the great things about working with young people, right is that they don't allow us to sit in our comfort zone, they're going to push us, to challenge us, to think about why do you say that? Why do you believe that? Why is that important? Felix, I'd like to know is there something big that you've learned about yourself because you work with young people?

Felix Martinez-Paz 

When you work with young people, you learn something every single day. Life changes so quick and so fast that when once you think you have things figured out, there's something new. So, no. But you know, going through life, life is not easy you know, of course, for none of us even though we pretend that we live the perfect life it's not easy. But I think when you have the time to think about it and try to get the best for your loved ones and for yourself and taking care of yourself because that's something that as men we don't like to do. Once you start having a better understanding you can be a better version of yourself, you can give the best you can be a better support system, not just only for your loved one but for your community. We all want to live in communities that there's respect, where there's love or there's value. Those connections help us to build stronger communities. Well, you feel secure that your kids are playing outside and you're not too worried about that something's gonna happen to them because we owe each other, are supporting each other, and helping to create stronger communities

Paul Meunier 

What do you think that you bring to this work that really identifies Felix in this work? What characteristics, what traits, what personality profiles do you bring that you think are really strong and helpful to your support of young people?

Felix Martinez-Paz 

You need to be fun, for sure. You need to be fun, compassion, show a lot of love. You can you know, you cannot lie to them. But I think it's just to bring compassion, fun, a vulnerability, I think, is those aspects that sometimes they haven't seen before. And that's why sometimes you are very excited to hear that because it's something fresh is something that makes you feel like you know what I think, I can trust Paul, I can trust Felix. And when you create these spaces, they're more open. I remember growing up, there's so many things that I never had the strength to talk to my dad about even sex, I don't remember my parents talking to me about sex. So, when you open this space to them to say, You know what? What do you guys want to learn about? You know, you want to learn about immigration, you want to learn about healthy relationships, etc.? When you open the space to them, that's something that they value, and they feel they're part of it because you're allowing them to raise their voice, to empower them, and to be themselves. So, they get upset, even if I don't show up to one day. If I get sick, and don't show up one of those days, they come the next day, and they let me know. They're disappointed because Felix didn't make it, you know. So, that's what you want to see. You want to see that they feel part of it, that they have fun, but at the same time, they they're learning to become better role models or better men.

Paul Meunier 

Yeah, well said. And you talked about creating a trusting space so that they can relate with you and maybe open up and share what they're thinking or what they're feeling. You strike me as a person that is very trustworthy. From the moment we met, I felt like I could trust you immediately. What do you think it takes to build trust with young people?

Felix Martinez-Paz 

Time, I think time. I think that's something you need to earn, it's not easy to earn. Sometimes I have facilitated spaces and normally, in the first couple of sessions, what we try to do is just do activities so we can learn from each other. So, we can connect, see the similarities that we have in common, but it's very important to create norms, you know, where they have an understanding that you need to assume good intentions, not everybody comes from, you know, trying to be mean to you. They could sound mean but that doesn't mean they're mean. But to be open, be respectful, you know, whatever we say here stays here. But we need to be sure they're all accountable. You know, once that accountability breaks, and you see that someone is just sharing information that maybe we shared in that space that trust is you lose it, you know. So, that's why it's so important to be sure that everyone is in the same pace. And everybody has the same understanding in order to create that trust. But trust is the key for everything.

Paul Meunier 

It's been wonderful getting to know you, I feel like I could talk to you for hours, Felix, you're so full of wisdom and nice little stories and antidotes about how to help young people. And to me, it's absolutely amazing that you're so intuitively good at this without having a formal education or moving into this role other than just kind of one day thought I'm going to try this. You're so intuitively good at it. And I'm grateful that you're helping our young people, especially our young people who have recently migrated, whether they're documented or undocumented, they need so much support, because they're trying to balance so much. And living in a new world and trying to understand the new culture and the new norms and all those things and blend them together somehow or live two identities. I don't know how people do that. But I'm so grateful that you're there to help them and support them. Because I know your work is making that community better. And when one community does better, I think we all win. So, thank you for being a guest on the podcast, Felix and thank you for doing the work that you do.

Felix Martinez-Paz  

Yeah, Paul, I think everyone has the capacity to do that. That's not something that, you know, is inclusive for me. I think we all have something to give to our community, something to how to support it. It's just sometimes we don't know. And it could be as simple as posting something in social media, supporting organizations that are already doing amazing work in our communities. I think sometimes those organizations receive funding that, you know, if they don't use it, if people don't support him, we lose those opportunities. So, try to focus on ourselves and mental health. There are so many things, but yes.

Paul Meunier 

Felix before we go, I'd like to ask you what words of wisdom or inspiration would you like to leave with our listeners today?

Felix Martinez-Paz 

If I could say something it's to be consistent. To never give up. Be true to yourself. I think that's the key. Life is not easy. But when we're consistent, when we're true to our values, to our beliefs nothing is impossible. And surround yourself around people that have the same values as you. They help a lot more to have more support and live a happy life. Thank you.

Paul Meunier 

If you would like to share your passion for youth work, we'd love to spotlight you as a guest. If you have feedback about the show, please let us know. Just visit training.yipa.org That's training. yipa.org and click on the podcast tab. This podcast is made possible in part due to a generous contribution from M Health Fairview. I'm your host Paul Meunier. Thanks for listening to The Passionate Youth Worker.